Paleo and primal

[Daughteroughter]

I have been reading about paleo and primal diets has anyone tried them?

Morning all,

It's true that dr get very little nutritional training and what is given is based on 70s research so very outdated.
My friend is a dr if nutrition and he put DH and I and all of our friends on the diet.

I'm feeling pretty good, back on paleo and feeling much better, still heavier than I was tho! Hopefully weight will all fall off today!

Queen, interesting to hear from your professional point of view!

And it's very inspiring that you don't have sugar cravings. I have just "restarted" not having sugar after my DS's 6th birthday (with cake) and I am actually embarrassed that I am so proud of not having sugar for 5 days now :)

"Does it all come back on..." in a sense that line sums up a lot of the issues. If I look on mumsnet for threads about business, work, feminism I hunt hard and they are few and far between. If I look for threads about women wanting to "diet" they are some of the most active and the most common. Many many women are absolutely obsessed with weighing less and the processed foods they eat seem to affect their brains in that way to think about food and weight loss all the time.

Eating in a healthy way which is all paleo/primal is is not really much to do about losing weight. It is about feeling mentally stable, happy and being healthy. You are also likely to weigh a healthy weight too but that is not really the heart of it at all.

I don't even agree that paleo is low carb particularly. It is just that so many people int he West have got used to a diet which is 50% or even more of processed carb so anyone who happens to eat three balanced healthy meals a day is regarded as on some kind of fad diet.

I stopped dieting at the beginning of this year I was just worn out and frankly bored with teh endless drivel about carbs calories and deprivation. I just eat normal food and not processed packet crap and I am the slimmest I have been in years I lost about 7/8 lbs straight away and am just so much calmer and happier.

Agree, Xenia, it's holistic lifestyle in a way. It often makes me think of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People in the way that Paleo stresses taking care of yourself and having down time apart from eating right.

noddy, that is so nice to hear!

Xenia, post of 10.08am. EXACTLY this!

I can attest that if you do stop eating this way, it does indeed all come back on. I'm a slightly different case though - I started eating primally whilst recovering from cancer treatment and it wasn't right for me at that time as it made my fatigue so much worse. I did lose weight and yes, as soon as I started eating processed foods again, it did come back on.

I agree with what you are all saying. I low-carbed (not quite Paleo, more Briffa) from Christmas until Easter, lost a shed load of weight and felt great. I was lighter than I had been for years, but that was an aside as BMI is still fine. It had become a way of life, but I am now back on some carbs because life got in the way - it's things like children's birthdays, Easter, Christmas, going out for a pizza for friends, that trip me up. I feel bloated , I'm grumpy and lethargic - I'm still going to the gym but not getting my cardio sessions going as well as usual because I feel like a lump! The thing about letting carbs sneak in, is that the very nature of them makes me feel sluggish and more likely to indulge further.

How do you all deal with alcohol, or don't you? I like my white wine (red at a push) - I really don't want to give up my occasional (or not so occasional) glass, and I do like the odd chocolate (have been trying to eat the 85% stuff but don't like the idea of all the caffeine in my body).

KarbeaSorry to hear you put on weight. Are you eating enough carbs and fats?
How often do you have the protein shakes? (They can be full of hidden sugars)

Whilst trying to lose weight on I kept the carbs at no more than 100g/day but no less than 50g/day. The key was:no grains, no sugar, no pulses, no dried fruit, fruit to the lower GI fruit, avoid starches but pile on the vegetable to mountain height. With 30kg to lose I wasn't always a saint!
I would, of course, have accidents with a 200g bag of nuts, a full bar of 90% chocolate (surprising how addictive that is!), bananas and the rest, until I discovered that a small amount of roasted parsnips, carrots or sweet potatoes could keep my sugar/grain craving at bay.

Ps.I did a stint on less than 50g/day carbs with disastrous consequences (my hair has not yet fully regrown)- here is Dr Cate's take on the subject.

Xenia, I couldn't agree more. I loathe the diet-industry obsession with being 'naughty' and 'treating yourself' and all this crap that just infantilises women. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have knocked off a stone over the last year. I like the fact that I look better, both clothed and unclothed, than I did a year ago! But I feel so much better too...

This is going to sound a bit nutso, probably, but one of the things I like about paleo/primal is that there's this connotation of power, of taking control, of rrrraaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhh! . I love that I'm primal! Much better than mimsying around with bloody low-fat yogurts and giggling because 'ooooh, aren't I naughty?' Give me strength.

Noddy that's great.

Eliza Just as Xenia, and tea just now, is pointing out is the attitude to 'a little treat'. You know that bit of birthday/Christmas cake is going to make you feel awful. People are not going to be offended if you tell them that you love cakes but cakes don't like you!
There are loads of baking recipes up thread, you could always bring your own treat to a birthday party. In the UK it's custom to bring a bottle of wine to your guest but in Italy you bring pudding!
Christmas it's a great time to have a bowl of nuts in the shell to fidget with rather than cake whilst playing the usual games. You can always make Paleo versions.

Eater you could make your own Easter eggs (just add a bit cream to make it 'milk').

Nutella is so easy to make:

250g chocolate (75% or more)
150mls of double cream
handful of toasted and grinded hazelnuts
sweetner of choice (I use 1tbs xylitol)
2-3tbs freshly squeezed orange juice (optional)

Melt chocolate on low heat, add orange juice (if using) slowly and stir until fully incorporated, then and cream and nuts until the cream start bubbling (not boiling). Apply straight away to a cake to use as ganache or let it cool to become chocolate spread.

Oops! ''Eater'', I meant Easter.

Pale snippet on Radio 4 just now. Only real controversy is no dairy, which I'm not doing anyway, and low carb which is not true as Xenia says.

It is possibly true that you'd be hard pressed to get enough calcium without dairy. Not a nutritionist.

Eliza, I do have red wine, typically a glass with dinner Friday night and then another after kids are in bed and then repeat Saturday. I haven't had any for a few weeks now, though, because it has started disturbing my sleep! I can't fall asleep, then I do, but keep waking. So at the moment I am not having any alcohol at all. That is subject to change, though ;)

I also find Christmas, Easter and birthdays hard. We always have something, but we do try to at least have gluten free treats instead of traditional baked goods with grains.

I don't really like 85 % dark chocolate, I like 75 %, and I do allow myself that because I don't have to have the whole bar, I am happy with 1-2 large squares of an evening and only in the weekend. In the past, I couldn't have any sweets in the house, a pack of biscuits would be gone in hours as would a large chocolate bar. I do often make grain free coconut macaroons or Italian almond "ugly" biscuits for the family, typically on a Friday. Small bathes, that last us 1 or 2 days.

tea, I also feel very "cave man", especially when I have been lifting heavy things ;)

Just want to add that I struggled for years with everyone else's attitude to rubbish food, thinking, 'Well, it can't be that bad or people wouldn't keep doing it.'

I feel so empowered to make better food choices by thinking of it this way, that we were not designed to eat factory products.

I also find the support on here about giving children healthy food to be so, so helpful. I'm not depriving them of 'normal' food but I feel much happier about saying, 'You've had ice cream twice this week, I think we'll have fruit for afters tonight.' Which is progress for me.

Sweet potato, salmon, celery and cucumber for lunch.

FavadiCacao, thank you so much for posting that article. It's very clearly what happened to me, post-chemo and radiotherapy. My body couldn't cope with the sudden lack of carbs and whoooooosh... I was incredibly fatigued and sleeping all. of. the. time. I'm actually having a little bit of a lightbulb moment now, as it's been really bugging me why I reacted that way when so many people had instant success and greater energy almost immediately.

Wow, I am so, so happy now.

building, that's great news with your kids! There is really no reason to have pudding every day, I certainly never did when I was little. Besides I find that it is less special, it's not a treat, if it is given every day.

With my kids, we just did it gradually, one step at a time. Bread was hard for them, really hard, but I cook paleo bread every now and again. They were already sick and tired of pasta already ;) We make their favourites like meatballs, sausages and burgers the paleo way and they don't really complain. I think they miss cereals, but then again, so do I ;) Might make some Paleo muesli for my coconut kefir soon.

Nice lunch, btw. I had leftover chicken and some ham with mayonnaise, a slice of spinach frittata and a few cubes of leftover roast sweet potato and celeriac, finished off with a few almonds and a serving of coconut kefir. I had no breakfast, small fast today, so I really enjoyed my lunch!

Have now convinced myself that it is a good idea to bake some sort of paleo treat for the family as it is Friday ;)

misscph1973 - I can never really be bothered with a glass of wine - I'd rather have none at all. I don't like getting drunk, but I do need at least a couple of glasses to make it worth the while - then I feel I've undone everything nutritionally.

I would like to thank Larry, if he is still reading, for having started a very interesting conversation about the unfitness of processed food.
Just think of how margerine and cornflakes are produced!

I believe he is misinformed about what a paleo diet is and I think he is confusing it with some other diet.

If he had read the whole thread he would have discovered that people are eating fruit in varied forms, including home dried; they are consuming copious amounts of vegetables, including starches, and even some honey. I'm sure his wife would recognise these foods to be healthy and to containing carbohydrates and essential vitamins, minerals and trace elements.

He might be worried about the fat consumption but, as Paleo, we do our best to buy free range, grass fed meat and eggs, game and fish which are not only lower in 'bad' fat but contain omega3. Widely recognised to be essential to support human life. We enjoy organ meat (are aware not to when pregnant!) and bone marrow.
The fat allows us to absorb the fat soluble vitamins. We drink plenty of water for the water soluble ones.

Are proteins a concern? It shouldn't, because we do not cut the fat out we are unlikely to exaggerate on these as the fat makes full and satisfied, as well as imparting the wonderful flavours.

Sugar. Sorry we just don't eat refined anything, whether from cane or corn.

I would be curious to know what his wife would think of my diet. Today's menu:

Breakfast.
300g mixed lettuce,
bunch of chives with flowers (home grown)
borage and garlic mustards flowers
2 medium tomatoes
50-75g prawns (didn't weigh)
served with olive oil, lemon juice and cayenne pepper

Lunch
2 medium leeks and ~50g mushrooms soup made with own leftover ham broth. 1 egg stirred into the soup.

Snack (if needed)
a 'chinese' soup bowl of Berries with a serving of full fat naturally set live yogurt

Dinner
1 large stuffed courgette (beef) oven cooked in tomato sauce. Served with roasted sweet potato (1 small) and aubergine (1 large).

As it's Friday I'll add a glass of wine of maybe two!

Usererror. Glad to hear you are well now. :)

LOL, Eliza, I know what you mean, it's just that if I have more than 2 glasses of wine, I get a hangover! And with kids, I just can't do that. I find it so hard to believe that I used to drink and have hangovers Friday and Saturday pre kids, I just don't have the time to be hungover any
more, and they only get worse with age for me ;)

building, re calcium, dairy is by far the only source of calcium. In fact it may not be a very good one. Many Western countries have huge problems with frail bones in the elderly despite having lots of dairy. It looks like the main problem is not the intake of calcium via dairy, it's the body being able to use it, which apparently is hard without Vitamin D, ie. sunshine. Also, bones need exercise to be healthy!

Dark leafy green veg are good sources of calcium as are sesame seeds. Get some sun and exercise on top and you will have great bones and teeth.

Personally I believe that the dairy = calcium is a marketing ploy from the dairy industry. Like oranges don't actually contain much vitamin C, red peppers contain far more. But there is such a thing as the orange juice industry ...

I've already cheated in my menu! I had half a cantaloupe melon! At this rate, I might have to bake. I was thinking of rhubarb (cooked in no sugar, I'll a bit of honey once reduced) topped with an almond sponge, served with cream. Good job I'm not counting calories

Yes, misscph. I think the calcium story has yet to be fully discovered. More recently, some research suggests that vitamin D alone might not be enough. Some scientist believe vitamin K has to accompany vitamin d.

Nutritional science is altogether in its infancy, some of the research is still so heavily biased and/or anectodal because of the very nature of being human (multi-factorial). However, some biochemists and geneticists are beginning to be interested in the multiple pathways (and their regulation). Dentistry and Medicine are becoming more involved, too.
I think we are going to see some amazing discoveries in the 10 to 20 years.