Cafcass - Do they split up siblings?

[noraledger]

Hi,
would really value some opinions please.
I have two children one is 13 the other 3.
Exp is trying to get custody of 3 year old. He would like 7.30am to 7.30pm Thursday through to Monday every week.
My children are very close even with the age gap. This proposal would mean that the 13 year old would never get to see his sibling. I would also not get to see my child very often and would be left with always getting her up and putting her to bed and none of the fun stuff that comes with being a mummy.
Is this something that CAFCASS would consider doing? It seems to me that it will split my children up and ruin their close relationship?

all you can do is do your best to set out the issues so cafcass can put in a good recommendation.

if you dont agree with CAFCASS report, then you can put your point., but there is no guarantee they will take it into accout. am in different but also similar ish situaiton regarding what court may decide to order re contact. but it is out of our hands - we can only present our views to CAFCASS and see what they come up with, then see what judge of the day decides.

if court decides your dd should go to his place, then it is out of your hands - all you can do then is monitor the situation and keep good records and notes so that any asthma attacks are recorded. then you can go back to court again and ask for it to be changed.

if in fact she does not get asthma attacks on visits then all well and good - but if she does then make sure you take her to GP and have it recorded in her medical notes for when you go back to court.

being drunk when caring for her is another matter - you can keep records but who will be reporting to you on this? you can record how 3 yr old is on return of course.

you could make sure initial order is for a short period eg three months and ask for a review hearing.

certainly, i have a sense that if the other parent is able to persuade the CAFCASS officer they capable of caring for child adeautely, then there is nothing we can do - we then have to sit back, take notes and wait for it to go wrong/hope it is ok, then bring it back to court.

it is out of my hands - i can only tell myself i have done what i can to keep the dcs safe and it will be the profressionals responsibility if it goes wrong.

But, do the professionals excpet any responsibility? From what i have been told there is very little come back on a cafcass officer if they refer wrongly.

I just want to keep my family together. At the end of the day i am not going to say to the officer that my dd should have no contact. Clearly he is her dad and she will want to know him. It just needs to be in a safe environment. He has threatend to abduct, he has been verbally abusive to the children and i and, he has been physically violent towards me in front of the children but never to the children. He drinks, smokes cigarettes aswell as the dodgey stuff and his family who he now lives with feel that this is all totally acceptable.

God, what a mess but in a selfish way i am so glad that it is not only me. All the advise given is very valuable so thank you all. xx

have been going down this route for some time now. my situation is different,but as far as cafcass are concerned,i have found them very,very good. you need to explain everything. you have now just mentioned domestic abuse. but not in original post. this is important.

Basically you ned o tell them everything, leave out nothing but do not whinge to them, don't go with the attitude of "Oh poor us he was so terrible he did....." list the problems, when they happened etc. Tell them your concerns and how you feel those could be managed.

IMO be honest, upfront and reasonable and you will get the best possible response from them. Also pick your battles, don't fly off the deep end if he tells a lie, take your time and calmly put your POV across, getting drawn into emotional exchanges just makes everyone look a little unstable, be the "grown up" in exchanges with him wherever possible!

Yes, i am going to do a bullet point sheet for me to take with me to court next week.
There is so much going on that i just dont seem to be able to prioritise.

I am so worried about dd and keeping her safe but then i suddenly remember that ds is so scared he will not see his little sister. They love each other so much. DS is 13 but worships his sister. He says she is the best present he has ever had and DD well, what can i say, she just follows DS around the house copying everything he does.

I have fantastic children. I just want to keep that relationship between them.

i assume 13 year old is in school usually anyway,so a few days a week makes little difference.

with your case my personal problem would be with his attitude and lack of respect. fo you,with his abuse,and for your dd's health.
as someone said already,pick your battles.

i'd not mention the sibling relationship,because cafcass are not stupid,and will know this anyway.
in court you'll have a conciliatary hearing for first one. you'll both go in a room with cafcass and they will mediate. ask what position is now,what you both want etc. then it goes before judge. cafcass will only become involved with you if their are welfare issues. then further reports will be ordered.

you'll get your say via a statement you both make after court with your solicitors. you will get time allocated for this. then you exchange them,and you go back to court

I dont have to go in to the room with him though do i? I know it sounds a little wimpish but i am still a bit ahaken by him. For some reason he manages to have me in tears too and i dont want to be overly emotional as i will not get my points accross.

So if i say every other weekend but not over night due to dd's health issues and then he says Thursday through to Monday with over night does that mean that cafcass will then have to step in? He will not budge i am sure of that and i dont feel that i should either. I may be slightly more flexible but it just seems the more i give the more he wants.

Please excuse the name change, is Kingcanute here!

Yes you do have to go in with him, the idea is for cafcass to mediate a conversation between you to see if there is a way forward! Use your bullet points, do not make eye contact with him, focus on the officer, ask your solicitor to explain to the officer that you find meetings with your ex difficult.

As I said beofre though, this is the person you are going to have to work with for the next 15 years so you are going to have to work out a way of working with him at some point!

i think they can do it with you both in separate rooms. mediation certainly can. but their aim is to gain something to work on and something to present to the judge.

let him be seen as being the one who is unreasonable. cafcass will spot this straightaway.....i did,my ex shot himself in the foot at first meeting. but keep it all child centred.

if there has been domestic abuse no,you don't have to meet in there with him. if you are scared,there are separate entrances and separate rooms. security is good. saying that,my ex tried to kill me and i 'bit the bullet' and went in. it was ok. plenty of peoplr around. take a friend maybe,to wait in waiting room with for support.

Nice name change!!

I know that you are right. I am going to have him in my life aswell as the childrens.

I tried to walk away from him so many times and if he had just let me leave him then all of this would have been so much more amicable. He wouldnt let me go though and the threats continued till i had no choice but to gain the strength and get up and leave for the sake of the children.

The thought of having to talk to him makes me feel sick. Last time i saw him in court he was laughing with one of his friends and it was so intimidating. He actually stood in the entrance to the reception right out seld the female toilet door so i could not get out of reception or to the toilet. I felt so sick that i was close to passing out.

I just dont know how i will gain the strength to go in to a room with him. Can you take some one in with you?

Oh my god TIFF he tried to kill you? You have more strength and courage than i do. Your an inspiration. How the hell could you go in to that room with him? What an ass!!

he has ongoing mental health problems. so ongoing that he's actually sectioned again at the moment. i guess i just know him,and can pre empt his next move. he wont have any acess now at all thanks to his latest stunt as cafcass have said it should be dismissed.

theres a good website that is full of proper legal knowledge in its forums,where family lawyers advise free of charge. its www.wikivorce.com.......try looking on there under court hearings,contact and residency etc.

we have 4 dc so i want my case sorted. but yes,he tried to strangle me,nearest he came to killing me,he admitted to a psychiatrist if i hafdn't distracted him he was going to kill me! there were many other attacks,i stayed with him way too long. but i'm the stronger one now.

no. it was just us and 2 cafcass officers. sols waited outside. i do remember being told i didn't have to do it though,it was my choice,but i had read judges prefer it if there has been some attempt to sort it out together.

you can't take anyone in,no.

Nora, tricks like that in court are silly little boy tricks to intimidate you, think about it, try to imagine what would have made you feel stronger then, having a friend with you? An advocate, your mother... if you can identify something then try to organise it for this time round so you have something to give you a strong feeling.

Tiffany could be right, I have not heard of seperate rooms but that means nothing I only have my experience to go on! Oh yes, Ilove, my ex scuppered himself in that first meeting too - he actually told the Cafcass officer that he wanted "more control over her" (her being me) i mean, how stupid can you get?

O.K. will have to spend the weekend building up the strength to face him. Anything to sort this out for the children. If the judges prefer it may also go in my favour that i at least tried. If he does anything or says anything in from of the cafcass officer i guess they will log it so it will go against him any way.

What sort of things do they ask or do they just sit back and expect you to talk?

Oh my god. I can only hope that my ex is that stupid Canute. It would do me a big favour.
I have just spoken with my solicitor who has said that cafcass are doing background checks on me, my ex and my mum and dad. What are these?

My parents have been involved with my dd's supervised visits so i am guessing that could be why they are being checked?

yes,can be quite entertaining watching them flounder in front of cafcass.

we sort of spoke through them,cafcass started with us by discussing currewnt contact,and how it was going. can't remember too much,bit blurry,but i sat back and added little bits where necessary. when i ws asked anything directly from them,i answered,ignoring his sighs,and gave reasons for my answer. i offered him what i knew cafcass would want to start with,as i had done some research,but it was nowhere near what he was expecting. it was definitely more them and him talking,with them directing the conversation.

I don't think there are many who are quite that stupid Nora so don't pin your hopes on it but, yes, it did work in my favour

Yes they will note anything that is particularly out of order but, at this stage, it is between the two of you so if he says anything out of orer during the meeting you need to raise it, either with him or with your solicitor.

They will ask a few questions, maybe prompt you, they usually want to know why you are there, what you want to achieve and so on. They are very good at allowing you to continue talking so watch that - that is how my ex managed to put his foot in it - I buttoned it, he didn't!

I think the background checks are just checking with social servicesand so on to see if there is anything questionable there.

Oh, i am going to have to make sure i dont do any serious rambling. I am normally good at keeping my mouth shut though, i have had years of practice of knowing when to shut up.
So back ground checks are just standard. Thats good. I know that my family and i have nothing to worry about on that score.

I sounds like all they are going to do is sit back and observe. It really is going to be a massive effort to talk to him but i guess this is the way forward.

Hi there, we're dealing with CAFCASS right now. Final hearing about to take place. Just as an example, yes they did agree to splitting up my partner's two children, although they didn't like it, and went all out to ensure they spent as much time together in the holidays. But also, my own children are split part of the week from their baby sibling - the arrangement I have with my ex, who wanted as much as he could get is: they sleep at his Mon night, Thu night and Sat night. He also collects them from school two afternoons a week and takes them to school two mornings (well he does now) and spends Sunday afternoon with them. That leaves me with just the baby here when he has them. CAFCASS thought this was a 'perfect solution' for all parties. So that's just to give you an example of what they consider to be OK. The main point is that consistent contact is maintained between siblings and also both parents. Personally, I'd prefer to have my kids 24/7, but so would my ex. So, I have to appreciate this is the best arrangement for us, and the kids. Does your daughter want such contact with her dad? My son does you see, my daughter's starting to like it now. But, for them, we have the solution we currently run with.
Another point though, my ex said he'd have the baby when she's a little older, so when he takes my two, he'll also, sometimes, take their little sister - not wanting to always leave her out. My brother does the same with his son, he takes his sibling out too. In fact, I know many ex's who does this out of kindness to the children.

My daughter is not 3 yet but she does cry her eyes out every time she has to see him. She cries for me. It is heart breaking to have to walk away.

My 3 yr old (when we split up) cried her heart out when the ex tried to take her, so he didn't or I persuaded him not to take her, Knowing it was on our agreed schedule, but trusting I was not encouraging it and would work on it, he accepted it.

I put effort into persuading my 3 yr old to 'want' to spend time with her dad, saying positive things, which I could because he was OK with the kids. But I also told her (and my son) that I would come and get her later if she wanted me to. My ex wasn't happy that she seemed to not want to be with him, but he went along with it.

Each day it was my ex's time with my 3 yr old, I gave her choice, so control was handed to her. In no time, she was freely going with her dad - knowing she wasn't being forced and knowing that actually it'd be fun.

I hate not being with my kids. I feel lost! Also, it's a real pain distributing uniforms, clothes, pack lunch items, etc.
Also I have no family and I hardly know anyone here, so for many months when we first separated I didn't know what to do with myself when my kids were with their dad. I could have used the fact my daughter cried and encouraged it so I could keep her with me. But I didn't, because no matter how much I can't stand the ex (he was abusive physically and emotionally), I know she benefits from having her dad, and lately she's started to feel closer to him. My son has always been very close to him and wishes there were 8 days a week, so we had him 4 each.

My DD loves having her new sister - both kids love her to bits, but they are OK with the idea they don't see her all the time. But they do see her everyday for a short time because of the way I put the schedule together. My ex has the kids sleep over on nights that I've had them in the afternoon, after school, or all day on Sat. Maybe you can work something out so your 3 yr old sees her brother every day or does your ex live too far away?

I understand how hard sharing kids is,it's awful and I hope I don't end up sharing my third child in the future. I just hate it! But, unfortunately, just have to accept it, for the sake of the kids.

So in terms of CAFCASS, I'd propose something reasonable such that the siblings still see each other as much as possible.

I know CAFCASS don't prevent access if an ex smokes or drinks - my partner's ex does that, smokes in the house, and has kids with asthma, and it wasn't even questioned. They also don't prevent access based on your ex having relationships. Generally, if your ex has space, is free from any trouble related to children, he will be granted contact.

It sounds like he's applied for a court order, which is why CAFCASS are involved. They are there to analyse and assess the situation in some detail and advise the judge as to what the order should contain. The judge often goes with the recommendation given by CAFCASS. So in effect they are mediators between the children involved in the court order and the courts, acting on behalf of the kids, and they normally have a background in social services.

So just keep focusing on what's best for your daughter. Offer to have a schedule, but put conditions in (I did). The further apart your's and your ex's wishes are, the more you are handing the decision to CAFCASS and the judge. My schedule means I and my new baby daughter see the my older kids everyday no matter what! and it couldn't be argued against because it was so fair.

But I was pretty much in the same position you're in at the start. My ex had the family home,as I left (I rented), he has a lot of friends in town, all his family living near, he'd left his job a year before we separated, so he called himself primary carer, even though my daughter went to nursery. But he had illnesses that sometimes made him unsafe to be around and he drank alcohol sometimes during the day. But given all that, the court was more than happy with our arrangements.