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Ex has turned on dc

44 replies

bodgejob · 26/03/2009 14:31

Abusive ex has displayed some worrying behaviour towards our eldest ds during his contact.I have now stopped contact for the time being.

We have now been separated for 1 year. And i'm worried this is his latest tactic to get at me . Well it has suceeded. I am devastated.

Has anyone else experience of this and what should I do next?

OP posts:
Janos · 29/03/2009 17:46

N1, it's not about you and your relationship with your DS and your ex wife. These are different people and different circumstances.

And yes, protecting a child is the ONLY thing that is important. It really is that simple.

N1 · 29/03/2009 18:21

The argument (if it gets to court) about stopping contact is that a younger child can't make informed decisions which may have life changing consequences. If a child grows up not knowing the other parent and as they get older, they start to ask questions. Meeting a stranger that claims to be their other parent has to be a bit daunting because the child knows nothing about the absent parent - other than third hand info.

The child might have high expectations when they meed and come away disappointed. The child might have heard the grim version and find the absent parent a better person and grow resentful for being kept apart and want to blame someone.

The child should be in a position to make their own decisions as they get older.

This is a very much shortened version of the argument without much detail.

Undesirable behavior is classed by some as abusive. Label something which is undesirable as worse than it actually is, ass a bit of hope and you hope that the "abuser" does less so they are not classed as an abuser.

I would be worried about the pushing event or other upsetting events. There must be other ways to deal with these sorts of problems.

Stopping contact is more unhelpful. If the mother can't show the court that the father (in this case an assumed abuser) is actually abusive (with proof) she runs the risk of the contact moving to unsupervised contact (by order of the court) and that might be worse in the longer term.

At the moment, the situation is difficult but the mother is better placed to be involved. Out the frying pan and into the fire type of situation.

georgimama · 29/03/2009 18:26

N1 you make no sense whatsoever. What benefit is there to a child having a relationship with an abusive parent? For the child? There isn't any.

What is this "other way" you think child abuse by a NRP should be dealt with? Do tell.

If as you say a child can't make informed decisions then they can't make an informed decision to maintain a relationship with someone who is bad for them. That decision has to be made for them.

N1 · 29/03/2009 18:37

If an absent parent is an abuser, there should be a history and the evidence should stand up in court to the point that a Judge would order "no contact". Otherwise - sadly, the "abuser" will get contact. If the abuser is that bad, they should be on their way to jail and obviously out the child's life.

A child having a relationship would grow up being able to tell people that they have a dad who is "no good". as opposed to wishing they had a dad.

If the child knows their absent parent, they figure out how to deal with difficult issues and what buttons to push or not push. I do agree that it's sad that a child should have to grow up like that. The reality is that the child has the right to grow up knowing both parents and if one parent interferes with that, the absent parent can ask a court to assist (with in the powers of the court) to maintain an absent parent/child relationship.

MANATEEequineOHARA · 29/03/2009 20:39

NI, you are talking crap. You think a child should see an abusive decision to be able make their mind up!? Are you nuts???

The damage that can do far outweighs any argument you have made. What is more, a child looks to the aprents they live with to protect them, any feelings of being protected would be undermined by the parent sending them off to their moron parent.

Not all seperated parents are like this, but if you take time to read the OP's post you should surely realise that what you are saying is unhelpful and unnecessary.

N1 · 29/03/2009 21:11

I said that the child should know the absent parent and I have said that the child should be protected from abuse. One parents perception of abuse might not be seen as abuse by the other parent because they don't see the effect. They can't see the effect because the parent with the child might not communicate with the absent parent.

What I can see is there was contact and one parent (the parent who has the child) stopped contact.

The absent parent wants the main carer to ask him to "walk away". If the OP sends him pacing, there is a negative reaction. By asking the ex to walk out the lives of the child, the OP could be inviting a court application - which is worse than looking for a way to make something work.

bodgejob · 29/03/2009 21:13

I can sort of get what N1 is saying. At the moment I am in a better position to protect my children as the contact has been mainly under my supervision and I have tried to keep it as amicable as possible so as to discuss concerns with ex . If it goes to court I could possibly lose that little bit of power and children would become more vulnerable if unsupervised contact is enforced. Also it will cause alot of bad feeling and I have wanted things to be as stable as poss for dc.

Until recently I had thought it was going ok as ex was on his best behaviour but sure enough he has now shown his ugly side again with the dc his target. I think it is because he has realised after a year that I definately don't want him back. Anyway I think I have been walking on egg shells with him and that is no way for me to live. He has gone too far and I have no choice but to protect myself and the dc and he can take things further now if he so wishes. By putting up with it I am giving my dc the message it is ok and I can't do that.

OP posts:
bodgejob · 29/03/2009 21:27

N1 what other ways would you suggest i deal with it ? I haven't replied to ex's invitation to send him away as it is not the best thing for the dc . I am very disturbed by events during the last contact and so have stopped contact for now . Told SS what happened and asked their advice and they said that is the right thing to do to stop contact and to take it to court .I would obviously prefer that not to happen but think it is inevietable.

OP posts:
MANATEEequineOHARA · 29/03/2009 21:45

Bodgejob I would say that you should take the advice of social services rather than anyone on an internet forum.

Janos · 29/03/2009 21:52

I second that!

N1 · 29/03/2009 22:59

I am one of the people who advise against asking SS for help. Once they get involved and start giving "help", when you decide you have had enough of their "help" they don't stop helping. It seems that Scotland have a more helpful SS than England. I hasten to add that the people I assist in court are usually trying to get their life and children back and I am more exposed to the unhelpful side of SS. One clear and reoccurring point that I hear is that if the parents (the ones I assist) that if the parents had their time over, asking SS for help would not be considered.

At the moment, there is no contact happening. The OP wants contact to happen. The contact that does happen is upsetting the children. There appears to be more than one child.

If the ex wants you to ask him to "walk away". I would avoid asking him to go - purely because you open yourself to being set up. What you should reply is that you don't make adult decisions for him. He should make his own decisions.

Lets assume there are 2 children (for arguments sake). One child is unhappy ad the other isn't. Could one child have contact and the other not. Stress that this is just a temporary arrangement to the ex and the children. There is a likely perception of double standards and differential treatment going to be raised. The counter argument is that contact (where possible) should happen.

Communication is a key component in forming any agreement. If the parents can't communicate, mediation is usually a next step.

In trying to communicate, you want to be clear and try to show that you can see the other side as well. If the other side feel that they are being considered, the conflict has opportunity to reduce.

Explain that the contact as it's happening is causing the older child to not want contact, which is a growing problem for you because you want the child to have a relationship.

Explain that you don't want to dictate the details of what the ex does during contact but you do want to try to assist in the children not being upset and in turn not wanting contact. If the contact works - everyone should be happier.

There are several steps to this process.

You want to establish that the ex is not going to walk away. No point starting a process of negotiation if the man walks away. He should make that decision though. It might be a good idea to ask if he would object to you forwarding copies of school reports, letters and photo's. It's the minimum you can offer and he can choose to decline.

If the man decided to stay in the picture. Aim to identify the issues from the older child's perspective. See if you can offer practical suggestions as an option.

You used the fight situation as an example and I am guessing that your ex likes to play fight with the child. Sensitive children tend to want to avoid fighting.

About 5 years ago, I was writing a statement for a dad who had an obstructive ex who refused contact (long story short) the dad and child (4 years old I think (at the time))playing "fight" was an issue. The solution there was getting the child a blow up hammer (the kind you find on the beach) and him and the dad played by hitting each others foot. The child found this funny and the child's laughter caused the mother to feel less obstructive. It was clear that she wasn't happy because more issues suddenly became a problem and the CAFCASS reporter cottoned on (by some miracle).

The ex wants to play rougher and isn't involved with the child on a day to day basis. Probably not involved with any child on a day to day basis.

The problem with the hammer idea is that someone has to take things further and when it moves to hitting a hammer on someone's head, it gets painful. Clear boundary's here. Only hit a foot because that's funny. Then set a time limit...perhaps 10 minutes so the child doesn't get worn out. If you can set the child up and used to playing a "hammer" game, you have the option of explaining the game to the ex and him playing the same game to get contact started again.

Communication is important here.

Keep accurate and detailed records of what you say to the ex and his reply. Better yet, use email or written letters. Written communication can be referred to again.

If court is inevitable, you have a solid track record of promoting contact and making suggestions. You have the ex's responses. The evidence speaks for it's self and you are in a stronger position to invite someone to better your attempts with a suggestion.

I don't know of more issues (apart from the child getting upset or distressed). Upset is a reaction to something. Aim to solve the problem.

Hopefully that makes sence.

N1 · 29/03/2009 23:02

I should have added that if the absent parent feels undermined and like they are "loosing" then the nastiness tends to get worse. Going from bad to worse is more unhelpful.

Offering practical suggestions (that you know can work) can be more helpful....assuming that your ex doesn't hate you with vengeance and everything you suggest is deliberately avoided.

MANATEEequineOHARA · 30/03/2009 09:23

But Bodgejob dd not say she was even getting involved with SS. She has asked for advice and they have given it, stop the contact, sounds very sensible advice to me.

Bodgejob I know it is really hard to stop visits and the free time that goes with it for yourself, but it will really pay off if your children can trust you to do the right thing for them, by protecting them from a bullying parent.

bodgejob · 03/04/2009 18:52

But isn't it worse for the chldren if their parents are constantly at war ? It is very stressful for everyone involved especially me and if i am not happy neither are the dc .

If all this comes to court how do I prove everything . I have a diary in which I have recorded incidents but is that enough? I really believe ex doesn't think he is doing anything wrong he has just had poor role models himself. I always felt like a parent to him as well as the kids.

OP posts:
MANATEEequineOHARA · 04/04/2009 16:39

But the whole point of going through court is to keep the kids out of the arguing.

bodgejob · 04/04/2009 18:17

Well it seems that isn't working with my ex.
Things are now worse than ever. Last night he rang to see if I was still angry with him. He totally turned everything round on me saying I keep the kids in bubble wrap and twisting everthing that happened saying he did apologise to ds and it was all an accident and i am a vile nasty bitch that he doesn't recognise any more. He then told me to go fuck myself. Nice!

I came off the phone having tried to get him to see things from ds's point of view but all he was interested in was putting himself in the clear whilst heaping blame on me.

Today was his agreed day for contact . He rang 3 times which I ignored then turned up at my house demanding contact. I told him to leave but he ignored me coaxing eldest ds out of house carrying him away into the garden sobbing . The other 2 dc were also upset in the house with my mum . He then said that i am playing games and told my mum to go away twice.

I asked him once more to leave and he refused so I called the police . Have I done the right thing? Sorry for rambling i am just so upset by everthing .

OP posts:
MANATEEequineOHARA · 04/04/2009 22:17

You have totally done the right thing in calling the police. And this is all the more reason to use the courts, you can get an injunction against him on the basis of his behaviour, and then he would be arrested if he did that again. I have recently changed my mobile number so my ex cannot call me. If he wants to see my kids he will have to go through a solicitor, that way I do not have to put up with his insults.

bodgejob · 05/04/2009 09:14

Thanks for the support MANATEE and everyone else. I definetely feel alot better now I have stood up to him . Will get a new solicitor this week and get some proper advice.
When he arrived yesterday he was carrying a copy of an agreement re contact arrangements . I haven't recieved a copy of it yet . This was done through my old solicitor who has really been dragging her heels since he started proceedings last october. Obviously circumstances have now changed dramatically. Do I still have a right to tell him to go?
It seems he is going to now stick to a contact agreement I have not seen.

OP posts:
MANATEEequineOHARA · 05/04/2009 10:34

I am pretty sure that he cannot do that if you have not seen it! He could have just typed it out himself!
Glad you are feeling better

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