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Original poster

Ex husband took dd and wouldn't return her

56 replies

MrsParker · 12/03/2009 23:34

My ex husband took our daughter who is 5 out Sunday 1st march. Said he'd return her at 5pm.
he called at 4.45pm to say that she was not coming home, that she wants to live with him. Very upset, begged him to bring her home but he wouldn't.
Called police and social services out of hours team, but as he has parental responsibility he could keep her. Police advised him to take her to school monday.
He took her to school monday, I was there waiting. He said he'd be picking her up later.
Went to solicitor, she advised me to collect daughter early from school, which i did. School said ex husband had been on phone, asking school to ask dd wh she wanted to collect her. As joint parental responsibility school say either of us can collect her, so they can't stop him.

I am going to court to get an interim residence order, dd has always lived with me since seperation in 2005. He took me to court for contact, i asked for a drug test, and he withdrew his application for contact. I have promoted supervised contact for the last few years at my home. I allowed unsupervised contact for the 1st time in Aug 2008. He has been very unreliable, and i suspect he still uses drugs. She had never stayed with him before. This was only the 3rd unsupervised outing they'd had. He argued with me before he took her as CSA have just started a dedustion of earnings and he's not happy.

My problem is that my solicitor says court date will be in 2 to 3 weeks. School can not stop him collecting her from school, or taking her out of school early.
She was off last week with a sore throat. Off this week with tonsillitus, saw doctor monday.
The school will not entertain home schooling as a temporary measure until i have an interim residence order and a prohibited steps order to stop him taking her from school.

They say she either comed to school, or i remove her from their register as home schooled?
Anyone got any idea what I can do? Solicitor said to talk to LEA. Which i did, said its down to school what they do.
Anything i can do legally to speed process up. Don't have ex-husbands address, need judge to get police to release it to my solicitor to serve papers.
Anything i can do about the school? I want to protect her, and if i send her to school he can take her
Will post in legal & lone parent section? Would you send your dd to school knowing this?

OP posts:
yerblurt · 14/03/2009 20:23

N1. Congrats on shared res. I'm quite surprised at cafcass asking 'outright' where a child of 6 wanted to live - I would find this rather unusual and hard to believe actually. A child of 6 may be asked their wishes and feelings but they would certainly not be Gillick competent. Anyway, it is of no consequence as this is derailing the thread.

To the original poster:

  • the matter is in the family court arena now, you have an abridged service notice hearing coming up on the issues of residence/contact. Now just be child-focused, focus on the relationship of child with father and how to promote that. You have fears, which is natural, however, just keep with it and concentrate on the child developing hopefully a meaningful relationship with father.
KingCanuteIAm · 14/03/2009 21:25

Yerblurt, I do not misunderstand the law - from my post "it is useful only as a way for the school to stall long enough contact the resident parent/police in difficult situations like this".

I have stated clearly and repeatedly that the school can't actually do anything and most likely (and understandably) don't want to.

Bakersman · 14/03/2009 21:38

Hi I have only read the first few posts so someone may already have suggested this BUT why don't you go to school with her to 'help out' until this is resolved? You could help listen to reading etc You may decide you only need to be there in the afternoons as they wouldn't let someone collect her too early. (of course school will need to run a criminal records check on you but I think you can help there in the meantime?)
Maybe someone else can shed some light on whether this would be acceptable.
Just a thought..... hope you get it sorted soon

KingCanuteIAm · 14/03/2009 21:41

That is a really good idea, if the op is not working or anything! Good thinking Bakersman!

Bakersman · 14/03/2009 21:53

Why, thank you KingCanuteIAm . Hope it helps OP.

N1 · 14/03/2009 22:07

Backerman has a good idea. If there was a possibility of visable confrontation betweeon the parents, that school might be reluctant to accept the offer of help. It would be better if the mum and dad reached an agreed written agreement with contact issues covered, it might help. Add the mothers school attendence and i think you have a good chance of sucess.

usernamechanged345 · 14/03/2009 22:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MrsParker · 14/03/2009 22:57

Thanks for all the replies. Just for the record I have promoted a relationship between my daughter and her dad since we split up. All though on a supervised basis because of his drug use.
He took me to court in 2006 for contact and then withdrew his application when i asked for a drugs test.
He has been irregular and unreliable with contact since we split. Sometimes going over 6months without contacting me to see her.

He has often failed to turn up when he said he would, I stopped telling her he was coming.

Over the years I have had to call asking him to see her when he has not bothered for weeks, to talk to her. In that time he has said more than once that he wants nothing to do with her, as he's moving abroad or because his girlfriend doesn't like it.

He only cares about drugs. If he took the drug test in 2006 and was clean, he could of had all the unsupervised access he'd of liked. But he didn't. The question is, does he love her enough to stop. I doubt it

He has never collected her from school before. He had never taken her to school before, until he failed to return her after their visit.

We have had problems prior to CSA being involved. Things have become more tense since he threatened to burn my house down because the csa started collecting arrears, when he's been working and not paid for the last four years.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsParker · 14/03/2009 23:00

Thanks MrsPickles will speak to solicitor on monday, she did say the judge would not entertain doing it ex parte as my dd is with me.

OP posts:
usernamechanged345 · 14/03/2009 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 14/03/2009 23:07

Do you have it on record that he threatened to burn your house down?

The court should know this.

Original poster
MrsParker · 14/03/2009 23:12

I called the police and reported it. An officer came to the house and took a statement, so there will be a record of it.

OP posts:
controlfreakythecontrolfreak · 14/03/2009 23:17

i am a family lawyer. have to say i think your solicitor is being v feeble indeed. if he took her and kept her in this way of course residency needs to be sorted out ASAP. i would be pressing for an without notice hearing on your application for a residence order and a prohibited steps order forbidding him to remove dd from your care save as agreed in advance / ordered by the court.... even if you cant serve him you can give copy to school / have copy to show police if needed. you can get order from court re substituted service.... ie serving him at address it will come to his attention 9work / hi mum's ....).

what's the worst that can happen? no ex parte order and an early hearing date.

it is not in dd's interests to be treated like a parcel and to go to and fro in this way. if he wants to change the arrangements that are settled and stable HE should have tal;ked to you / made an application for a residence order, the silly arse.

i would be suspending contact too if he has behaved like this and you dont even have an address for him. he has behaved v unreasonably and the onus is on him to explain / seek to reinstate contact.

good luck.

yerblurt · 15/03/2009 17:52

If you are a family lawyer then you will know that any county court worth it's salt would not grant an ex parte hearing granting sole residence to a parent unless there were clear compelling child welfare concerns (i.e. the parent was a junky and had been taking the child joy riding AND there was evidence before the court, say police records). Such granting of an order would leave the judge wide open to appeal.

On the subject of times for hearings. Well it depends on how busy the courts are (they are jam packed at the moment) and how many emergency hearings they have had to hear, as well as the routine. In my experience it's normal for an abridged service notice to be 1-2 weeks, as mum has the child in her care then the emergency isn't 'that' much of an emergency - taking into account what else the courts have to deal with (kidnappings/public law cases/how busy the judges are/if it's a big or small court etc etc). Abridged service can be given for a hearing to be listed in 48 hours to a few days.

In so many things 'it depends' is the answer

however, you have your hearing coming up and you will just have to deal with in that way. Not easy I know, but that's the system we have, it may be shite and it may be slow but it's the only one we've got at the moment!

usernamechanged345 · 15/03/2009 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yerblurt · 15/03/2009 23:33

A court in most instances wouldn't grant an ex parte sole residence order (leaves them wide open to appeal), a PSO/non-mol order can be made ex parte and IME are granted - but these will be time limited until the next hearing, which if the OP is applying for abridged service notice will be a week or two at the most (hopefully).

The exception I can imagine if if there are serious child welfare concerns, but these can be addressed by PSO's, rather than residency - the former prevents/orders someone to do something, the latter is stating where a child lives.

usernamechanged345 · 15/03/2009 23:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

N1 · 16/03/2009 01:09

You have a better chance of getting a exparte PSO order than interim residency order.

It would be better to ask for a PSO (not exparte) but with an abridges service and get the ex to court at the same time so the application is not exparte. That way the court gets to hear the ex's side as well before making an order. The ex may choose to offer an undertaking to not remove the child or attempt to remove the child. If the ex tries, he would have just discredited his case and started building a history against himself.

There is no requirement for the application to be made at the same court as the residency application but it's preferable. If you can get heard at another court with in a few days (or sooner) then that might be an option.

When I made applications (in the past) the quickest I got a hearing was with in 10 minutes and the longest I had to wait was 5 days. 5 mins to get a 20 min hearing and 5 days to get a half hour hearing. I was LIP.

N1 · 16/03/2009 01:12

The hearings I got were exparte, though I didn't really want them to be exparte. I also had the option to transfer to another court or the high court.

The 10 min wait was an obvious in my case. The clerk didn't know about how to deal with my applications, so the Judge asked to see me, and I was expecting that.

newlysinglemummy · 17/03/2009 23:04

Sorry I do not have any advice, but hope things get better for you and your dd. Good luck xxxxxx

Original poster
MrsParker · 18/03/2009 10:17

Got court date for 15th April, solicitor insists can't get date any sooner.

She also advised me to take nina to school as i could be criticised by ex for not. If he was to take her from school, she said we could get an emergency order to get her back! But funny no ordery, i can get to stop it happening.

Anyway spoke to head mistress yesterday she said if i take her to school and he turns up, they will call me, and will not release her to him til i get there.

I am ok with this, so she went to school this morning.

OP posts:
LightTouch · 18/03/2009 20:30

Hows it going MrsP? Must have been nerve racking today. Did he turn up, or was it all quiet?

Have been reading your thread in amazement. I had no idea that if your DD is resident with you, that anyone could take her. (Thinking of the implications to me an my DC) I had hoped that a Statement of arrangements for the Child stating she is resident with you would stop this, but it looks like it doesn't.

Hope all's well anyway.

Original poster
MrsParker · 19/03/2009 12:37

i was nervous all day. Waited by the phone. But thankfully no call from the school.

So i collected her from school as normal. He never turned up.

Now I do the same today. I pray he doesn't go to the school.

I got a letter from him saturday asking for contact starting this friday, he'd pick her up from school and drop her back on a monday to school. Passed the letter to my solicitor. So think friday may be a dodgy day

OP posts:
CatchaStar · 19/03/2009 13:01

It's a good thing that the school have agreed to call you if he shows up and to keep her there until you arrive.

Could you arrange to collect your dd 5-10 minutes earlier at the end of the day before school ends, so that she can still go to school but there wouldn't be the chance for him to collect her? If you can get to her a bit earlier and leave, then he wouldn't be able to pick her up?

I'm so sorry you're going through this, how awful for you. I'd actually want to kill him if it was my exp and my dd.

lostdad · 19/03/2009 17:48

It is a terrible situation and I can only emphathise with you.

My xw did this to me - and is being aided and abetted by the terrible courts we have in this country. They know, but don't care.

Children have a right to two parents working together in their best interests.

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