not mothers for justice...mums for equality-anyone care to join me?

[treaclepudd]

I know there are Fathers for Justice and other small groups around but does anyone know of a group against the csa or a group for mothers calling to be treated fairly upon seperation?

I've seen lots of post on here from distraught women, and men, whom the law seems to be ignoring. I know children's rights are paramount and I follow that and agree. However, after 13 years in a relationship with a complete it seems that I have to be continually in this position for as long as the children live with me.
For example, my solicitor writes a letter asking his new partner not to come near me after 4 months of mallicious, crude, vile and upsetting text messages etc. The letters remind him not to turn up 4 hours late, to ensure any homework is done etc etc and I cannot afford any more letters and what I have sent are ignored by my ex anyway. Surely he should be taking equal responsibility for the children in every area of their lives, not just fun times on saturday.
My solicitor says there is not much I can do. It seems that the law supports your ex [usually male] in what ever way it can at the expense of you [mum; usually] and thereby your children as they get upset when ever you are.
I dont understand how someone can treat another person so horribly and get away with it. Just thinking that if it were a case at an employment tribunal it wouldn't be allowed to continue. There shouldn't be so many people made to 'put up and shut up' [my ex's favourite catch phrase]. How someone can treat your children so appaulingly [for example on fathers day my ex told my son he didnt want to see him because he didnt want to leave his new partner for that day, my ex didnt phone to see how his daughter was for over 13 days after I had to take her to hospital 2 times because she was so ill, he hasn't wanted to spend xmas, half term, easter or last half term with them, he never phones them etc etc] ...and still he gets away with it and i have to bend and cower for him because of the children [who half the time dread going off with him].
My point is I bring up the children, all my money goes on them [which I dont mind], all my thoughts are with them and he swans in and out of their lives and seems to be able to so and do what he likes to me and them [he sees them fortnightly despite my offers of him having them midweek etc].
I work full time and get 20% net from my ex through csa. He lives on three times as much as me and our two children and his new partner also works...so you can probably triple that figure [as they live together]. I am tired, worn out, frustrated and cross. He chose to just leave me above relate and trying beforehand. All this is his choice, yet the children and I have to put up with him basically two years on, still having to pander to and do what he wants regardless of what I or they say or want.
The csa website says 20% is right to keep the children living in the same standard as they were before the split?
Isn't there anything we can do-i know im not alone!? I know alot of women have had worse than me and Im not ungrateful for what I have got but it seems all wrong in this day and age.
Anyone...shall we? or can someone point me in the right direction?

i am really sorry everyone. i feel pretty bad for upsetting anyone on here. it wasnt my intention.

Thankyou all for your words of kindness and wisdom, its good to be reminded of the good things. thankyou.
my ex is basicaly laughing at my letters from my solicitor and not doing what he should be doing and blaming me for everything. i do feel worn out and cannot see the end of the tunnel right now.

i cannot tell you how nice it is to come on here and feel a bit of support from people who share similar experiences, i am sorry for you too.

i can understand the worry in not being able to keep up the payments of a mortgage, as the worry must be the same when i worry about paying my rent. i also worry what i will do when i am old, and where will i live then and what will my children do when the maintenace stops-theyll still need a roof.

I dont consider myself lucky or happy or pleased to be a single parent or any of those things to be in reciept of maintenance which is rightfuly deserved from my children's father for them. we had children together and its his responsibility if he wants to be dad to help support them in every way. this is part of the problem, its like i should smile and shut up and be grateful my children and i arnt living in a box becasue he gives up a small percentage of his wage.

i wish i could spend more time with my children, i dont begrudge them my time or anything else, i live for them. i worry that they wont turn out right or feel rejected and go off the rails later in life because their dad can be so stupid and foolish and ive shouted in front of them to their dad because i get so annoyed.

no money can compensate for my children being driven to tears by their dad one day and the next day think he's the best thing since sliced bread and its all forgotten. its all of us on a never ending roller coaster of ups and downs. the csa is just the icing on the cake.

the point is that it isnt good enough for any of us and change only comes about when people do something about it...apparently.

im sorry everyone and thank you for replying to my self indugent message and moaning. you have helped to make me feel better this evening, but still cant sleep!

... i hope he gets his cunuppance too, its just when?!
i also hope that my children do see through the 'charm' and that what he does is wrong.
also, i know im luckier than some people...my sister has not recieved one penny in maintenance from her ex and she lives on benefits so i dont mean to sound like a spoilt brat and im sorry if thats how it sounded...of course i would be a whole lot crosser if i were her.
i am so sorry for upsetting anyone here, thats the last thing i wanted.

I didn't mean to upset you treaclepudd, my first post sounded harsh, I can see that now. All I meant was at least you are recieving regular payments, some people, like your sister are not even getting that.

I wasn't implying, as some people want to make out, that the money is enough or a replacement for him being a proper dad.

I do believe, in the end, it will be him that loses out, your children will remember it was who stuggled for their benefit and it was you who was always there for them.

Sorry for hi jacking but everyone jumped on me when they found out I was an NRP's girlfriend and I had to defend myself and try to make it clear I wasn't being horrible - I'm not like that, honest!

I hope things improve for you and your children soon

Ans I've learnt my lesson - stay out of the lone parent threads!

Ah, Treacle, it is all so hard and for me the worse thing, is, I know, it is all so unnecessary. The games some people will play.

Your ex- sounds particularly self-centred and mean. The turning everything round and blaming you rings bells for me - it is a classic way to refuse any responsibility, isn't it?

You aren't ever going to win with a person like this, unless you are prepared to do things like he does.

Despite what he is basically telling you: your feelings do count, the way he treats you and the children counts even more, and his lack of respect just shows what sort of person he is. Problem is being on the receiving end is horrible. He is making a bad situation worse.

The unfairness and pointlessness of it all makes me want to roar. Then, like you, I look round and there are worse things - I try and turn things round and look at what I have, rather than what I don't. No, I don't have financial security and accepting this and just carrying on is really hard. There again, I have relatives who are very comfortable and no happier for it. Pollyanna-ish, definitely, but whatever helps you get through. So, I recommend MN-ing, the occasional glass of red (can't afford it!), lovely baths, exercise, pure escapism of a good film and books and walking tall. I do my best - I love my DSs and although, I wish my life was the two-parent-happy-family-unit, I will make the most of what I have got.

Hugs.

At the end of the day, the problem is the Family Court system.

There are good and bad mothers and fathers. Seperation and divorce brings out the worst in people very often.

The Family Courts are to blame because they reward malice, use an adversarial system and a `winner takes all mentality'. Everyone (aside from solicitors) are the ultimate losers when they get involved in it.

You can not make bad parents good ones. So what can everyone do about it?

It is not about mothers or fathers. It is about the right of children to have two responsible, caring loving children. If we get into stupid arguments about mothers being more important than fathers or vice versa - we've already lost sight of our goal: To make sure children get the best parenting we can provide.

Personally, I'm more disappointed with the screwed up system than my ex. My son has been let down, badly. And there is next to nothing I can do about it.

This is why I joined Families Need Fathers. I've been shouted down before, avoiding the work of this charity and having it reduced yet again to the tired old argument which boils down to `girls are better than boys' thing.

With a membership of about 3000, and a third of the members being women it promotes, with it's sister organisation MATCH (Mothers Apart from Their Children) the shared care of children whose parents have seperated - guiding and helping mothers and fathers to do the best for their children.

If all we're going to do is argue about feckless fathers' or contact blocking mothers' things are not going to get better though, are they?

Hi stillovefoxes,

I thoroughly "enjoyed" the hijack - it just seemed everyone was talking at cross purposes.

Don't let it put you off - easier said than done. I kept off MN for a couple of months after one particularly nasty (IME) thread. Still, I am back and it really helps me.

1066 - I think what you said, was spot on. What I don't get is how the person that you invested so much time with (15 years in my case) can suddenly turn into someone so horrid. How was I so conned for so long? I'd never had planned DS if I knew what I know now.

TP, I can totally relate to how you feel. I grew up hoping that life would be fair, and unfortunately it's just not. Hold your head high, and just be the best Mother you can be.

meant to say 1066's first post that said it all for me ....

also TP, I think I read on the Gingerbread site that they are lobying for a better deal now the CSA is being replaced, but I think you were actually after something more militant

hey guys.

1066 - i too left for a bit after a very nasty post. still love dont leave the thread - part of the beauty of a site like mumsnet is that it is a real chance for people from different walks of life to contribute their views and experiences and help us all understand each other a little better. your first post was worded very badly and i said no to it because our lives are difficult enough without being told to be grateful for it. that said you still have a right to your opinions - and if someone disagrees its not an attack - just a different opinion. you apologised for the first post and that is often hard so feel free to contribute when you want to.

treacle - i am glad you are feeling better. mhn has gotten me through many awful awful nights. xx

LightTouch - I don't think you were conned. I imagine the good and bad were always there but separations really bring the worst out in some people. It doesn't seem out of the ordinary for one partner to vilify the other. It is always easier to blame someone else. It is all so sad.

No, I never dreamt I'd be a single-Mum and although, I wish they had the loving extended family of my dreams, a smaller happier trio isn't bad, either.

Some parents will never behave and it really is best not to let them worry you.

I wish I could stop using the CSA myself as my X just messes them about. I am going to earn enough one day to give it all the elbow.

Everyone here is right though let your kids make their own minds up and they vote with their feet.

For some the X turning up is not a good thing in any case!

Herbietea - I read your message earlier and didn't have time to reply. Didn't want to let it go without replying though.

I'm sorry you've all been through such a difficult experience. It is so hard to understand when a parent seems to put anger and revenge above what is best for their own child. Unfortunately you are not alone and lots of NRP suffer PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrome) at the hands of the resident parent. Of course it works both ways and some NRP also criticise and belittle their ex which is so confusing and upsetting for the children concerned.

If you've not come across that term before (Parental Alienation Syndrome) then try googling it. You will find lots of information about it which may or may not help you.

I also recommend joining Families need fathers. Please note it is nothing to do with Fathers for Justice.

Fnf is a charity set up to help anyone involved with the difficulties of seperated families (whether they be fathers, mother, grandparents, new partners, extended family etc). I am a member. It offers a lot of helpful advice and a wealth of shared experience. You may be able to help others and they may be able to help you.

Never give up on your dss. I do hope that one day he will be in touch. Do everything you can to make it easy for him to find your dh and his half brothers when he decides he is ready. For example do you have a facebook page? Have you searched to see if he maybe does?

My thoughts are with you and your family.

Stay strong
Gilly

christ this thread is making me sad. there never seems to be a good way to do this. in my way i am the parent doing the alienating. my ex is cruel about our son wasnt even there for years and cant bond with him. he is also mentally ill. in the end i just gave up. regardless of what he has done to me i would give anything for him to show one bit of the love he gives the son he knew since birth but he blames our son for existing. the guilt of being on this side never eases and the day i ended a continued relationship between them broke my heart. its a break i dont think will ever ever mend. i spent years dreaming of seeing them go to football together and laugh together and to the pub and i gave it up because i had to face he would never give that. he tells himself its because i hate him. i dont. far from it. i just dont want my son to suffer through his indecisiveness and bitterness anymore. and one day i will have to take responsibility for that with my own son. i wont involve the csa - i dont need to. i dont think a law change will ever make this easier. you cant legislate emotions. i do think that relationship councelling should be made a mandatory part of divorce however.

prettyfly1 you can't mend a broken person - that miracle comes from within and with a lot of help and luck.

There is a huge difference between protecting your DS and alienating him because you are an egocentric excuse for a human-being.

Don't lose sight, on here, that we tend to be extreme cases - people whose ex-es are totally awful: either NRP who don't care, don't pay and use the system to make a mockery of being a parent or RP who use their proximity to take everything they can - money and children and hell mend everyone else including the kids.

thanks 1066. when i chose to say no more i had to really look within myself to be able to answer honestly that it wasnt his treatment of me colouring the decision to walk away. i think it made me angrier but my desire to see my son treated well won out in the end. i have to protect him. its just bloody awful thats its his father and our poisonous relationship i have to protect him from.

thanks 1066. when i chose to say no more i had to really look within myself to be able to answer honestly that it wasnt his treatment of me colouring the decision to walk away. i think it made me angrier but my desire to see my son treated well won out in the end. i have to protect him. its just bloody awful thats its his father and our poisonous relationship i have to protect him from.

prettyfly, it sounds to me you have made the hardest but right decision and thought about everything very carefully. i can completely understand, as hunderds of other people would, the desire for your child [and rights of your child] to be treated well. your son will grow up a happier child for it.

Spot on, Treacle.

Id join a mums for equality - after all our kids get 100% of our income and 100% of our time fathers get away with a lot in my H Opinion then again remember girls any bloke can become a father not everyone can be a real dad -such as shame theres a lot of fathers out there and too few dads.Im not having a go at men in general just reading a lot of posts on here and own personal experience shows this to be the case