Lone parents are financially better off than (low income) couples - discuss!

[PersephoneSnape]

I didn't want to further post in the 'ask dave a question thread' but I am a bit hmm about some of the comments there about lone parents being better off financially than couples and that couples with a SAHP should let the working parent inherit the tax allowance from the non working parent.

I work full time with three children and pay tax. I get the same tax credit as a couple with three children who would have the same combined income as me - but i lack the support, help and love of a OH in raising my children. despite that i think i still do a damn good job. I still have to pay a mortgage, provide heat, light, clothing etc for my children, i just don't have to feed another adult - which is a relief because i can barely afford to feed myself sometimes (hello, noodles!)

IMO letting a working parent have the tax allowance of a non working parent would mean that i earn £5500 untaxed, but the guy sitting next to me with one child and a SAHM , would be able to earn £11,000 untaxed. My children would be treated less equitably than the married couples children, because my ex left us.

People who think that single parents equates to feckless slut living the life of luxury should walk a mile in my shoes. Doing the job of two parents isn't easy and we don't spend the 'extra' money that we would spend on our absent partners food or travel on bicardi breezers and silk cut. A lot of people struggle financially whether they are a couple both working minimum wage jobs, a couple with a SAHP, a working single parent or a single parent on benefits. Any tax breaks should, i feel, be aimed at children, regardless of their parents status, rather than simply rewarding people who are married.

a tax break won't keep a marriage together when things go wrong. It won't stop adultery, domestic violence or just plain falling out of love...and then you have more single parent families with a single parent and their children coping with marriage break up and significantly less income because the tax breaks go to married couples.

oop! sorry, i linked the hmm instead of ing the don't bother clicking nothing there...(sorry!)

I have every sympathy with lone parents. I can only imagine what a long, hard slog it must be.

I would disagree with your example of a man with one child/sahm earning £11k untaxed though. Where did you get that from?

I think you need to state what a low income couple is because I think it means very low income couple (lower than us)! We get enhanced CTC because dh's salary is low if he was on his own he'd get the same amount of CTC but wouldn't have to feed/clothe me IYSWIM. I also once managed to work out that if I work as well (16 hours to get some help with childcare costs) our weekly income net would only actually increae by £50 which is a significant amount but a lot of stress for £3 per hour gain (I was happy to earn that doing my sat shop job but not my stress laden, responsible fiance job).

So I think what needs to change is that families are better off by working because at the moment I am biding my time until my dc are at school so I do not need to use childcare so I don't need to work 16 hours per week so effectively I can work fewer hours and still be £50 per week better off!

I am just really racked off because the pitance I earn is going to be taxed at 70% - great yet if I earned 60k no way would I be bothered about paying it!

business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/budget_2008/article3543675.ece

Take from the porr and give to the rich - If only I was on 25 k per year at least it would be better.

I try to balance myself and be a full time mother and a part time worker aoutside the home (just like the goverment want) and what do they do shit on me from a great height and tax me more...

Why do I work outside the home - pride, to show my children that you can raise a family and work, why do the goverment tax me - to give it back in tax credits, its a strange one that isn't it? They need to tax me so that they can afford to give the money back to me - its a weird world

Yes BTW working and raising children on your own a very long hard slog completely unrecognised by most.

blimey, I'm really confused now

We did actually work out once, that SIL, single mother of one child on benefits had more disposible income than DH and I - DH working (in a managerial role)low mortgage (@40K), me a SAHM and one DC.

SIL helped us work it out as she was asking DH for money,(pleading poverty) and as he had a job he was obviouly loaded . (She hasn't had a penny off DH since )

I find it hard to imagine that two low income parents can earn less money than one. Even if you do get tax credits. If you both work, then you can both get childcare vouchers for a start and they're worth £100 per person.

I really struggle with the notion that people will stay together because it's financially advantageous to do so. It's a fundamentally flawed notion which is only being bandied about because there is this erroneous impression that we single mothers are living the life of riley. Sooooo not the case

I can't have the child care vouchers as it would take my earnings below the legal limit! So not allowed to have them until I earn more - by that time I will not need them.... Even though I pay tax and NI

If I earned more I could get the vouchers and save myself some money

£40k I wish

sorry, I've taken it as one persons tax threshold where they start paying tax is around £5500 at the mo and if they transfered a non working parents tax allowance to the working parent, as some people are asking, wouldn't the working parent have an earnings allowance of 2x£5500 = £11,000 before they have to pay tax? or have i got this really wrong?

low income? i have no idea? I nicked the idea from the ask dave thread where someone posted that lone parents have an easier time financially than a 'low income' couple. I take this to be 2xminimum wage or whatever working tax credits would top an income up to.

bed time for bunnies! back later.

See, this really winds me up because money isn't everything.

Last night I had a horrendous migraine - my 5yr old DS had to get himself changed and in to bed because I was literally incapacitated on my bed; I couldn't even give him a good-night kiss or hug...

Now, if I'd had a partner/husband - they could have helped him whilst I rested.

I am on benefits - I get housing and council tax benefit, income support of £104 a week and child benefit at £70 a month; I have literally enough for survival.

I don't know if that is more than a low-income household or not but money REALLY isn't the biggest issue - emotional and physical help go a hell of a lot further IME

I totally agree that money isn't everything. My benefits total just over £1000pm, rent is £550. I don't struggle too much with money and usually manage to save £50pm for ds. I'm sure there are loads of families who have less money than me but I would MUCH rather have the support of a partner. I can't get ill, sleep in, go out, moan to someone or even talk to anyone once ds has gone to bed.

I don't believe that two low income parents have less income than one either, enough with the attacks on single parents. I'm not one, but my mum had two spells of being one, although not so badly off as many I know of. As others have said, the other support not just the financial support make all the difference.

However, childcare vouchers being worth £100? Over what period? The limit of £55 per person or £110 a couple is the weekly amout you get in vouchers, not the amount of extra money, which is the tax and NI payable on that amount. As basic rate taxpayers I've worked out that dp and I can save about £16 a week each by getting them. We're on ok incomes, not high but not low wage either, someone on minimum wage can't get childcare vouchers. And low paid women may find that they lose more on SSP (men as well) and SMP if their employer doesn't offer better sick and maternity pay.

i do think there is a lot of support and financial incentive for lone parents to start work...(ivykaty)but after a wee while you're kind of on your own (literally)

I'd like to see tax credits for childcare paid at 80% for couples and 90% for single parents who only contribute one wage or (oh my!) 100%. give all working families equality regardless of how many adults there are.

it's really difficult working full time, but i have very little disposable income due to financial mess my ex left us in and mortgage. I want my children to grow up with a 'protestant work ethic' (no disrespect to mums who choose to be there for their kids on a very minimal income - my mum worked and so benefits aren't in my landscape type thing) I don't think it should matter financially if there are two parents or one.

Money doesn't bring happiness, and those that have an income of £30k + seem to think they are hard done by so perhaps it is best to have less

When your ill and a little hand comes over your forehead to fell your temperature - then gets you a drink of water, thats when you know money isn't going to buy you everything..... or when your not feeling well and your dc tells you to sit down whilst they pack the shopping at the supermarket.

I do though read some of the problems people face with their other half and thank my lucky stars I am alone Half of the other halves need more care than a dc!!

if you have a partner you can leave kids at home with him and go shopping. It is so much cheaper shopping without kids, you have time to browse for bargains and put less crap in the trolley without them!!

Also, taking kids out their clubs and sorting out meals homework etc is hard by yourself. I have used convenience foods when im ill or too busy! id never do that if i had support

This is a tricky one. I hear what you say, but tbh, I have a slight problem with the phrase:
'I get the same tax credit as a couple with three children who would have the same combined income as me - but i lack the support, help and love of a OH in raising my children. '
Quite. But is having a loving, helpful partner or not, really anything to do with the government? The trouble is, it's not as simple as couple = wonderful, supportive relationship, and single parent= sad, lonely struggling person. There's a whole spectrum of relationships, including couples where one partner is useless, and single parents who are hugely capable. Many couples split up because one or both partners feel they are going to be better off without the other. I'm not out to hammer single parents, but I do think it's a ridiculous situation where a single parent can afford to stay at home to bring up their kids through the benefits system, but a low income couple can't afford for one parent to be at home.

I agree that the system is ridiculous. All families should be able to afford to have one parent at home. But the government doesn't have endless supplies of money and so their job is to make sure the people who need it most get the most help. In general single parent families are in need of more support than families with two parents and as the government can't provide emotional support they throw money at the problem.

Which works out quite well for me and ds but I would happily take a huge cut in income in return for a supportive partner.

alfie I think you put that really well. Just because OP is alone and finding it tough, that doesn't mean married couples should 'suffer' and lose their tiny tax break to compensate! Keeping a marriage going is bloody hard as well, and the tiny rewards are welcome.

I'm a SP and was on full benefits until my DD was nearly 2. At that point I felt she was at a good age to be socialising at nursery and I went to work P/T. I am now off bens and am better off.

My sister is married with 2 DC's and couldn't afford to work. Sis & DH get no financial help for childcare and in order to work P/T it would have cost her more in childcare than she would earn. Fortunately we were both in a position to help eachother as my DD wasn't happy at nursery. My Sis has her while I work and I have hers when she works.

I would be ok as I get 80% childcare covered but she gets nothing. Somethings not right

However, I am about to feel the pinch big time as I have been getting In Work Credit for nearly a year. After a year it is stopped and this will leave me in a big pile of poo. I never meant to come to rely on the money for everyday living and intended to save it (£40 week), but the recent price hikes in cost of living has forced me to use it to pay the bills. I am now about to have a reduced income of around £150month at the same time the council tax, water rates etc go up... My wage increase doesn't come close to bridging the gap.

Agree microwave. It annoys me when people have this rosetinted view that everyone who stays in a marriage is just supremely lucky - as if its just fallen into their laps without any effort on their part. It's been said so many times before - all children begin life with two parents. I know tragedies can happen, and a parent can die, or sometimes there can be an absolutely horrendous relationship breakdown where one partner didnt see it coming at all. (I'm thinking of a friend of mine who'd partner just cleared off one night - she got home and he'd disappeared. Turned out he'd been living a double life and had another family tucked away!). But tbh, most situations aren't that extreme. Relationships all have their ups and downs, and anyone who says they don't is lying or deluded. Some of us stay together, some people split up, but it doesnt mean that all couples are fabulously happy or all single parents are in the depths of despair. I just think there needs to be more recognition that couples who stay together should not be penalised.

Just for your information, couples cannot transfer their tax allowance from one partner to another. Believe you me I should know having spent all of January doing personal tax returns. My goodness, if this was possible, millions of UK tax payers would be doing it!!! Don't know who sold you that story PersephoneSnape!

ALfiesbabe: not all children begin life with two parents. SOme women get PG as the result of a one night stand or indeed choose to have a child alone when they are financially sorted - and then things go wrong. Just as things can go wrong for anyone.

I feel the same as cargirl. I went back to work for 3mths as a qualified nurse and after childcare was paid it worked out that I was on £3.20 per hour Its not worth working for with the responsibility it entails and the missing out on dd development as well. I am now pg with dc2 and will not go back until they are at school. If I was a single parent however, I would have been entitled to help with childcare costs, but because I am married and DH earns a reasonable but not fantastic wage, I was not entitled to help. I am very sad that I studied for 3 yrs to become a nurse, lots of hard work and sacrifices due to crap pay during training to have to give it up and probably lose registration because of not being able to practice. I started childminding because it pays better.