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Change in benefits for Lone Parents

225 replies

MsPontipine · 04/03/2008 14:09

I went to my annual LP advisor meeting at the JobCentre today - was rather stunned by the proposed but very likely changes.

It was a bit much to take in but basically by 2010 I think lone parents with youngest child 12 or older will no longer be able to claim Income Support on LP grounds and will be required to sign on and claim Jobseekers Allowance and look for work.

Another couple of years and that age will be reduced to 7.

There are various incentives, grants etc but that appears to be the long and short of it.

I was pretty stunned - mostly I think because this is the first I've heard of this. I am not an avid news watcher but I'm not a complete ostrich.

Food for thought. . . . . .

OP posts:
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talkingmongoose · 04/03/2008 14:11

I think that from age 12 this is fair play.

sorry.

MsPontipine · 04/03/2008 14:13

Tempted to agree from 12 - ask me again when we get there but 7 ???

OP posts:
nelix2000 · 04/03/2008 14:41

I think twelve is reasonable. I am a single mum, not by choice, but am taking every opertunity I can!....I dont want to sit on benefits and struggle by. So I am taking this oppertunity to get my degree so I can get a good full time job by the time my oldest in in primary school at age 4. He deserves a working role model, and sees me studying hard at home too. I get my open university fees paid for me. I know single mums get a totally bad rap! Most of us do not sit on our ases and watch jermemy kyle! I look after my kids all day, then study all evening 7 days a week! I dont want a minimum wage job. I think training programs for single mums...esp the ones that gives us our bad rep that DO sit on their ases all day, should be made to do something. Its not our choice to be lone parents, but it is out choice to get out of the system and make it work for us. Take the free tuition or courses! Sorry....rant over lol...I know study is not for everyone and they shud offer vocational courses too....I am a beleiver in education on all levels.

nelix2000 · 04/03/2008 14:41

I think twelve is reasonable. I am a single mum, not by choice, but am taking every opertunity I can!....I dont want to sit on benefits and struggle by. So I am taking this oppertunity to get my degree so I can get a good full time job by the time my oldest in in primary school at age 4. He deserves a working role model, and sees me studying hard at home too. I get my open university fees paid for me. I know single mums get a totally bad rap! Most of us do not sit on our ases and watch jermemy kyle! I look after my kids all day, then study all evening 7 days a week! I dont want a minimum wage job. I think training programs for single mums...esp the ones that gives us our bad rep that DO sit on their ases all day, should be made to do something. Its not our choice to be lone parents, but it is out choice to get out of the system and make it work for us. Take the free tuition or courses! Sorry....rant over lol...I know study is not for everyone and they shud offer vocational courses too....I am a beleiver in education on all levels.

gillybean2 · 04/03/2008 17:50

I don't get to have an annual review with my lone parent advisor though, and have never been offered one. Maybe i should call them up and ask why or are you supposed to request it!?

I agree that parents should actively be encouraged to get back into work wherever possible. The longer you leave it the harder it will be.

However if you have to move to jobseekers allowance rather than income support then i can see the 'official' unemployemnt rate rising. I really don't see how they can make a parent take a job (any job you are offered) when they can not find child care or will possibly be let go because of problems with child care.

My main concern would be reference child care places for children over 12. I find it hard enough as is. My son currently goes to two different holiday clubs. One is only open Summer and Easter and takes children to the age of 16, so that is fine. The other is open all holidays including half terms and christmas, but they only take children to the age of 11. I don't feel that 11/12 would be a suitable age to leave my son at home alone all day. So while I have summer and Easter covered what will happen to the other holidays once he is 11? And if suddenly every lone parent with a child over 12/7 is looking for a child care place in the holidays I might find it harder to get him into those holiday clubs.

At the moment i work part time to ensure i can collect to and from school, and juggle my hours during holidays to have more time off but work longer days. Not everyone has a flexible and understanding employer like i do. If i had to find childcare each and every holiday for the four hours a day i usually work i'd be hard pressed. And i already have concerns about what i'm going to do once he's too old for the every holiday holiday club. I might add there are no childminders where i live either and i have to drive him an hour to the holiday clubs from where i live!

So yes in principle, as long as no parent is worse off finanically by working and employers are understanding about childcare and holiday issues.

Gilly

charlotte121 · 04/03/2008 18:30

I think the government may have to re-think that 1. How can you put someone on job-seekers allowance when they have no intention what so ever of getting a job?
I can understand why people want to stay at home and be a mother but I can also see it from the governments point of view of trying to get people back into work, paying tax, contributing to society etc.
Personally i think job-seekers allowance should be compleelty scrapped. Its a total joke. Its not enough money for the people who are genuinly using it whilst they find a job and its just an excuse for slackers to get money out of the tax payers when thay arnt even looking for a job, take their money away, then they would have to get a job (not refering to single mums here by the way, we all have the right to be SAHM's and it isnt our fault that were single parents.). A new rule should be introduced in that sense i think.

charlotte121 · 04/03/2008 18:32

sorry bit of a rant there but it p55s me off that I get penalised from benefits because i get a student loan, which i then have to repay whilst other people i know of just abuse the system because they cant be arsed to get up and get a job... and they dont even have any children to look after.

littlewoman · 04/03/2008 22:26

agree charlotte121, but I think they should chase absent parents (fathers, mostly) for money instead of bloody penalising the mothers. Obviously they know where the mother/resident parent lives, so its easier to force them to work harder with kids and a job than it is for the csa to chase the absent bastarding parent for maintenance.

littlewoman · 04/03/2008 22:28

I'm going to write to the government about this. F*ing cheek. As if life ain't hard enough for single parents and easy enough for the runaways.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 13:08

I think there was quite a long debate about this on Mumsnet when it was first announced -a year or two ago. It was in the News section, I think, if you want to search.

We all make choices about whether we can have children, whether we can afford to support them, whether we can afford to stay at home or whether it is better to work or study (possibly slightly neglect our children in the short term and/or have them doing long hours in childcare) in order to provide a better future for them and ourselves. These choices are often harder for single parents because we are usually in a situation that we did not plan for and we just have to deal with it, trying to make sure that our children have the same opportunities as those in two-parent families.

The system currently makes allowances for this: Single parents only having to work 16 hours a week to claim working tax credit. Being able to claim income support indefinitely without being made to look for work. These concessions are not available to people living together as a couple. The government is adjusting and tightening up on these concessions. (These concessions are not a right. It is not that many years ago that none of these existed. Hence part of the reason that people traditionally looked down upon and pitied single mothers and saw them as charity cases.)

I don't think it is unfair as such to change things but the problem is that there is not enough flexibility in the system to cater for different individuals' situations. Working when you have one child is reasonable. Working when you have, say, three children of different ages, at different schools, or if one or more has special needs - it all starts to get more and more impractical and unrealistic, although some manage to do it. It also depends a lot on how much family support and back up you've got. And/or how much you earn and how much paid help you can afford. A single parent with loads of family backup might be better off, practically, than a two-parent family with no backup.

I think someone was also arguing in the previous debate that sometimes older children need more support than younger ones, because they might have loads of homework or emotional problems or loads of after-school clubs to go to which require lifts to and from. I suppose that last point is more about the luxury (rather than necessity) of after-school activities but you can see what they mean. So it is hard to pick an age after which all children are more self-sufficient. It depends on a lot of factors.

Of course, two parent families have some of the same problems, if both parents are working, so the debate can become mired in comparing individual circumstances. But I think this is the point. Many people, single parent and/or two parent families on low incomes, struggle. Sadly, it is impossible for the system to take into account all the individual circumstances (it would turn into another CSA) so a seemingly arbitrary cutting off point is decided upon.

Aimsmum · 05/03/2008 13:14

Message withdrawn

Remotew · 05/03/2008 13:30

I agree that 12 is reasonable. The current age of 16 is allowing people to stay on benefits unecessarily. Childcare issues are solved by aged 12 and lone parents will only have to work for 16 hours a week to qualify for wtc etc.

Transferring to Jobseekers allowance will help claimants find employment plus I think it may be limited for how long one can stay on Jobseekers.

Not sure about aged 7 though but it might deter people from making a career choice to have children and live on Income Support for most of their working adult lives.

VictorianSqualor · 05/03/2008 13:41

I think it's perfectly reasonable, I assume you could get a job that was only 16hours a week and get tax credits, so should be able to find something part-time that means you won't lose out too much with the children.
As long as the people that would prefer to be sat at home on benefits rather than are on benefits because they have to be, don't just go and have mroe kids.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 13:56

About Eve - Virtually no-one makes a 'career choice' to have children and live on Income Support. This is a fallacy that is bandied about by the media. The vast majority of single parents are over 20 or 25 and were in (what they thought to be) a stable relationship when they decided to have children.

Victorian Squalor - Just because a single parent can claim working tax credits when working 16 hours a week, does not mean that the single parent family is well off on them. Why shouldn't a single parent have the opportunity to have more children? I agree that we all have to make decisions with regard to how many children we have and whether we can adequately financially support them ourselves, however, why should a single parent be condemned to only being allowed to have one child when they have been left on their own through no fault of their own?

Life on benefits is not much of a life. Most people who choose this do so through necessity, e.g. caring responsibilities. Don't judge.

VictorianSqualor · 05/03/2008 14:07

I didn't say at any point anything about people not being able to have more children.

Just that some people may well decide to have more children so they can stay on benefits, usually the ones that are scamming the benfits in the first place.

I also never inferred that a single parent family on tax credits would be well off, they are however likely to be better off than claiming benefits.

As for judging, you have no idea of my situation or situations I have been in so how do you know I'm not speaking from experience rather than a soapbox?

Remotew · 05/03/2008 14:17

Skyatnight. I meant to say that I read your earlier post and thought it was very well put and informed.

I beg to differ some single mums on benefits are happy to stay that way and know that having more children wont a financial problem to them. However, of course, there are many other situations where that is not the case.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 14:28

VSqualor - I found the last sentence of your previous post difficult to understand (the meaning) but I just took the last bit: 'don't just go and have mroe kids.' literally. Sorry if I misunderstaood you.

I find it hard to believe that someone would have another child (when their youngest is 7, presumably?) purely so that they can stay on crummy benefits but I suppose you are right, there could be a few people like that.

Apologies if it seemed that I was 'judging' you. I don't know what your situation is. Nor do you know mine. I just get annoyed when people (not you) talk about being on benefits as a 'career choice'. As if.

I agree that childcare issues are more-or-less solved by the time a child is 12 but I do think 7 is a little early in the case of some families, i.e. where a child has special needs or where there are several children in the family with different needs.
There should be some additional provision or leeway for particular families on a needs basis.

lostdad · 05/03/2008 14:29

Interesting statistic, littlewoman:

A higher proportion of NRP mothers refuse to pay maintenance than NRP fathers.

The reason the vast majority of non-payers are men is because the vast majority of RPs are mothers which gives a strong perception that this is not the case however.

But it's not about gender. It's about the children. Whatever happens, I will always support my son, no matter how much my ex uses him as a weapon to hurt me - which she does at every opportunity.

VictorianSqualor · 05/03/2008 14:36

I have no idea what the difference would be in the case of children with disabilities, but I presume this is covered in a different benefit or at least different rules.

And for those who could only work school hours, due to childcare issues, would this not be included in their jobsearch criteria whilst on JSA?

Then the money for the children would be in CTC rather than income support so it's not like people would be immediately expected to take any job that was around and be refused any money other than the standard single persons JSA, so in theory I think it would work pretty well.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 14:39

About Eve - Thanks. I was remembering what I read in the previous debate.

It is sad if all someone wants from life is to pop out lots of kids and struggle to live on benefits their whole life but I agree that there are some people like this. I just think that the proportion of single mums who are like this is vastly exaggerated in the media and it promotes a false picture of the character of single mothers (as if we are all one homogenous group!). We are all different, as varied as any random sample from the population.

I never thought I would be in this situation (I expect very few people do but it can happen to anyone). I suppose I am programmed to (over-)react every time someone makes generalisations about single parents or talks about is as a 'career choice'.

Remotew · 05/03/2008 14:44

I just get annoyed when people (not you) talk about being on benefits as a 'career choice'. As if.

Suppose that was aimed at me.

There is a carers allowance (I think that is what it is called) for parents of children with disabilities so yes, a different benefit.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 14:45

VS - Yes, I think overall it is fair, 12 is certainly fair, not so sure about 7. From what I understand, there are also provisions within the CTC and Disability LA for particular situations but I expect some people still really struggle.

I suppose that's just life. I'm a bit of an idealist, egalitarian, but we can't all have the life we want, some of us are luckier than others. You just have to make the best of it and be grateful for any help the state says you are entitled to because there are places where there is no help at all.

skyatnight · 05/03/2008 14:46

Sorry About Eve. As I said, that phrase just winds me up!

Remotew · 05/03/2008 14:51

Skyatnight, sorry x post.

I know how it is as I am a single parent too. I think it is just reasonable to get back into some work once the kids are of secondary school age if you can so I agree with the government looking at this again.

Its the same with the whole of the benefits system. It should be overhauled and given to genuine claimants but it is always open to abuse by a minority.

Unfortunatley we cannot change the world .

expatinscotland · 05/03/2008 14:54

The major problem I have with this is how f*cked up Working Tax Credit is.

You never know what your true entitlement is - and it's not something you can calculate for yourself.

You get notice after notice about what your amount is.

And then, for tens of thousands of people, the Tax Credit Office came back two or three years later and said, 'You've been overpaid. You now owe us thousands of pounds so we're cutting off your credits for X number of years till you pay it back.'

Leaving one of the most vulnerable segment of society, the children of teh working poor, well below the poverty line.

I think they should reform the tax credits system before they start in on lone parents.

It was horrible enough for us, but at least there were two of us to work to keep us from homelessness.

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