13 Yr old not wanting to see Dad. Dad trying to force extra contact

[NeedSleepNow]

Sorry in advance for the long post!

Ex was emotionally abuse, particularly to our eldest son (now age 13) we separated 18 months ago mainly due to the abuse and the affect it was having on the older children . No court order in place, but at mediation we agreed the children (ages 6, 10, 13) would live with me, see him 1 night in the week and go every other weekend to him 10am Sat to lunchtime Sunday. Two days after mediation he started saying he never agreed to that schedule and now tells the children at every opportunity that I am stop them seeing him, I am unfair, he has lost everything due to me, had no home, so him having a proper relationship with him. The ridiculous thing is that he never did anything with them when he lived with us, just say in the sofa watching TV whilst I did everything for years.

The older two did not like staying at his flat when the went. He isn't set up to have them (one sleeps in his bed with him, one on blow up bed, the other on sofa) so come back tired and grouchy. He also won't let one of them sleep with a night light on as he refused to believe she is scared of the dark, says he will not allow his child to fear something. Overnights only started happening after mediation as the mediator pushed for it.

The eldest says he hates his dad, cries a lot to me at home about how he has ruined his life, he never wants to see him again. He suffered a lot of emotional abuse and his confidence has been shattered (I am going to get him some counselling as it is consuming all aspects of his life at the moment and I feel is mental health is really suffering).

Ex was meant to be taking them out last week and eldest didn't want to go. He was crying telling his dad he didn't want to go and dad was shouting as usual, saying how much he is spoilling things for him & the other children. Eventually son got in the car and I spoke to ex, pointed out how upset & angry son is with him and he storms to car and starts shouting at son. Drives off and tells them the whole car journey how mummy had destroyed his life, he has lost everything, Mummy is unfair and stopping him seeing them....

Son rings me later in the day to say Dad is trying to force him to go for dinner with him one day. Saying you need to tell Mum you WANT to go out just with me. Son was crying about this whilst telling me in whispers so his Dad didn't hear. Next day I heard his dad doing the same thing on the phone "have you told mum about dinner yet, it doesn't matter what she thinks if you tell her this is what you want", son tells me after in tears that he does not want to see his Dad. Last night son showed me a text from his Dad about it again but this time saying have you told Mum that you are now having dinner with just me one night a week every week or spending time with me on our own every weekend. So Ex now wants to have either an extra evening a week or time every weekend with him and is manipulatively trying to get son to say that this is his idea that he wants to do this with his Dad. In reality I have son sobbing at home, tears streaming down his face begging not to have to see him every again, saying how awful his life is...

I have always encouraged a relationship with their Dad but I feel forcing a child when they really don't want to is not in their interests. At 13 surely he should know or have a good understanding of what he wants/needs? Ex is a real bully and son finds it very hard to stand up to him (as do I, he can be aggressive & very manipulative). How would you approach this?

@MintJulia @Whowhatwherewhenwhynow i will definitely tell my son it is OK for him to stop seeing his Dad and that I will explain the reasons why to him so as to reduce any extra stress or pressure on son.

Yes I could get another sim card for son so that he doesn't worry about all the unwanted phonecalls and messages from his Dad.

That sounds much better.

If your ex kicks off and blames you - which he is likely to do, tbh - try to accept to yourself that you cannot win, and it was always going to end up here anyway. What counts is that you are protecting your son's interests and MH.

Try and go out with him when his dad wants to come to the house. Anything.

if it helps at all, my DS - after going through the same process - has changed immeasurably in the 'break' from seeing his dad (now 1 year). he is confident, happy and relaxed, and attending school and doing really well. And this from a boy who's been through four different therapists, referred to CAHMS, missing school etc. Turns out all he needed was to be away from the awful emotional control.

Thanks @Itslookinggood , I have accepted that whatever happens I will always be the one he blames.

That's great that your son is so much happier now after a break from his Dad. I hope that my son will be a lot happier too, I think he feels under so much pressure at the moment that he struggles to think of anything but the situation with his Dad and it is consuming every aspect of his life.

What a disgusting pathetic man he is.

I would change the locks, I would block his number from all the children’s phones and only communicate with him via email.

this man is emotionally abusing your children in plain sight, you found the courage to escape him once now you must batten down the hatches and go the full hog.

keep all evidence of abuse on mobile phones.

if he wants to go to court just let him

explain to your children that how their dad behaves and treats you all is not normal, quite harmful and you need to limit contact for a period of time in order to give you all a break from the abuse.

it is ok to do this - you are allowed to protect your children from harm.

stay safe, sending virtual courage.

You sound so battered down by your ex and so scared of upsetting him with the word 'no'.
He is using your children as an extension method in his continued abuse of you. I would suggest that you contact Women's Aid for support and do The Freedom Programme if you've not done it already. You are being abused. Your children are being abused. He behaves like a terrorist because that is what he is - he terrorises you ALL into submission.
It is not YOUR job to maintain HIS relationship with the children because that is HIS job. You have already done your bit by going to mediation and supporting the children's visits etc but he is the only one throwing all this away. He is the only person being abusive here.

You can not stop what he says but you can change the way you react to him. You are your children's advocate and protector. Look up and learn the Grey Rock Technique and apply it every time. I can promise you that it does get easier after the first few times of saying 'no', 'that doesn't work for me/us/the kids', 'he/they have decided not to come this time but maybe next time but it is up to them' etc. It doesn't matter what your ex says because it's not true and you are not co-abuser. He will threaten court and 50/50 but lets be honest he won't do it because that's 'work' that he's got to do and it's often just a threat to scare and intimidate. No court will make a 13 yrs old go to see anyone against their will and tbh it's unlikely that a 10 yr old will be made to either. My ex stopped with court threats when my DS hit 10 because he knew that no court would enforce his desires over DS's. How much of your DS13's problems are down to this giant cloud of his father overhanging his life on a daily basis? I would guess that it is a lot.

You need to take a deep breath and start being the protector. Get some help from WA and make your children's schools aware that they are being subjected to daily/weekly emotional abuse from their other parent. The schools will have pastoral care available with counselling etc. Abusers thrive on secrecy and fear but take that away and you show your children what a good, strong parent looks like. Stand up and show your children that you love them more than you fear him. Stand up and build a better future for your kids. I've been where you are and it was hell. I stood up to my exh and said no more and it did work. My DS is now in his mid 20's and thriving. He still sees his father but it's on his terms and only every six weeks or so but sees exh for what he is - an abusive arse.

Excellent post by mothra!!!!!

That is exactly how I feel @MothralovesGojira , battered and worn down by his behaviour. We were together for 20 years and I just feel so exhausted from all of his shit. I had seriously thought it would end after we separated but of course he is now continuing to emotionally abuse the children as a way to keep control.

I have emailed both schools and asked to speak with my eldest's head of year about the situation and the head of my younger two's school. I suppose I have never told the schools the full extent of it all as I still feel so guilty calling him an abuser, even though that is what I know he is, and I feel ashamed that I ended up in a relationship like that and have caused my children so much distress because of it.

I am trying to say no to him as much as I can, each time I do he just pushes back harder. More pressure, more abusive talk, more texts, more pressure on the childten. He told a friend of mine the other day that he will push harder and harder for what he wants the more I try to stand in his way. It just feels like there is no end in sight to all of this. Thankfully the older two will be able to have more of a say in things but I think they are too scared to tell him what they do or don't want. When I do it for them he thinks I am brainwashing them and increases the frequency of his messaging, calling, telling them they need to see him and it is not up to them. He then is still able to come to the fmh where we are living as we own it jointly.

I'm glad to hear your son is now thriving, I hope you are too. What you said about standing up and showing the children I love them more than I fear him has really struck a cord with me, this is absolutely what I need to do for them right now and I will try my hardest to show them this everyday. Thank you 🙂

I have similar issues with my ex. Thankfully the police here take a zero tolerance policy towards DV, so the last time my kids refused to go and my ex attacked me (via email as I have him blocked) - I contacted the police… who paid him a visit before I even got home and told him to wind his fucking neck in.

Tbh I’m expecting a solicitor’s letter any day now - which I shall ignore. He is MORE than welcome to take me/his kids to court and the kids are confident to stand up and say they don’t want to go.

I’d also recommend as per PP to contact WA. I’d been separated 3 years before I contacted WA because I realised he wasn’t going to “be nice” just because I was no longer there. WA supported me and made me see what a nasty piece of work he is.

I haven't spoken with WA before, I suppose I had assumed it was just for women who had experienced physical violence. I will give them a call next week on my day off and when the kids are at school.

I liked into the freedom programme last year as a few people suggested it but there was nowhere local to me running it, but I will look and see if I can maybe do it online.

I'm sorry you're still having problems with your ex after that length of time. I expect my ex won't ever change, he will probably continue to be like this for years to come.

It’s knocking on 7 bloody years now! 🙄 I did use WA to leave and I thought that’s be the end of it - but he keeps coming back with more of his BS. But I won’t tolerate it any more and he knows now that I’ll go straight to the police - this wasn’t even the first time I’d called the police on him AFTER I’d long left… and I’ll do it again. It’s like training a dog - I keep needing to reinforce! 😉

@NeedSleepNow
Well done you've taken your first steps and I absolutely applaud the courage that must have taken you NeedSleep. Now keep going.

Tell the schools exactly what is happening and don't be scared if words like safeguarding are mentioned - they are just words for keep safe etc. The advantage of making the schools aware is that if this should ever get to court then CAFCAS will ask the school what they know and a history detailing ongoing abusive behaviour is useful for you. It also means that your children should get extra support with their emotional wellbeing. At our secondary regular contact is given through pupil support etc and our local GP surgery has a weekly drop in afternoon for teens where counselling can be given if requested. Similarly, our primary school as had a counsellor for emotional issues and they would touch base with a child for half an hour most weeks - I hope that your local schools have this as CAMHS is hopeless. If social services are mentioned then see it as a good thing and not something to run away from or fear as sometimes it's mentioned just to gage your reaction.
You did not make this situation - he did. But....you can certainly reject and mitigate his poison because that is what it is...poison. He is poisoning your life and your children's lives but you are the antidote and by reducing his contact you are weakening the poison which is blighting all your lives.

Now what does concern me is what you said about your exh's intention to push harder in response to you putting in boundaries and standing up for yourself and the children. He pushes back harder because in the past it has always worked and funny how his comments about pushing back harder against you got back to you isn't it? It was designed to instil fear and put you back in your box because he is sensing that you are going to become your own person. You have already started defending your children and he does not/will not like it one bit. I would start cautiously and slowly rather than a sudden confrontation but see what WA say first.
You need to practice saying no and your responses to his likely replies/demands. Stand in front of a mirror or even just sit quietly on your bed and imagine him yakking and your response for example:
HIM " I will be picking up DS on Friday for dinner. Make sure he is ready as he will be coming like it or not"
YOU " DS does not want to come and I will not be sending him"
HIM " he is coming and you will bloody send him out"
YOU " I have said no -DS will not be coming to dinner as he doesn't want to"
HIM " Yes, he will and you can't tell me otherwise"
YOU "....." (you do not reply and just say nothing to any further demands)

Do you see what I mean here? You reply. You repeat. You say nothing further on that matter. If he changes the subject and then skips back then just look at him silently. This probably sounds very scary and yes, it does need big girl pants but it does get easier to do. Believe me I frequently (and metaphorically) wet my pants at the beginning. Just because he barks doesn't mean that you have to respond. If he threatens court just reply "ok, well that is an option for you I guess", shrug and say nothing else. I was dragged into family court four times and represented myself each time. It was scary at first but I won what my DS wanted in the end because exh stuffed up his own case every time by being abusive. Fear of court is often used by abusers to get what they want.

I'm also concerned at his belief that he can come and go as he pleases in your home. You really need to see a solicitor specialising in family law and abusive behaviour to see where you stand. Paying for even just one hour of legal advice is money well spent. Please consider gathering some evidence of his abusive behaviour (texts, emails etc) and eventually ask to have a chat with the police initially 'unofficially' - hopefully they will have a specialist officer.

Make a plan like 1) talk to school; 2) talk to Women's Aid; 3) ring round and get quotes for a legal consultation; 4) Get DS13 a new sim so that he can choose who he speaks to; 5) Speak to the police for advice
Keep chasing things up if people don't get back to you

Only you know how fast or slow you can do this and you should proceed at your own pace as you see fit. We are strangers and we don't know you or exh so only you know how to proceed my lovely but please do something as soon as possible for your 13yr old. He is at a delicate age where mental health issues really start impacting adulthood. As I said previously, you are his advocate and protector - find your inner mumma bear and roar for him.

Good luck to you all x

@NeedSleepNow
Oh I also recommend a book for you. It's called Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft and it's a total eye opener.

@MothralovesGojira thank you so much for such a detailed reply. I'm off to bed in a minute but will have a really good look at all your suggestions in the morning and I have just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon, thank you for the recommendation.