ethics of flirtation with your child's teachers?

[TurnAgainCat]

This term, ds's swimming teacher is really gorgeous. We go to parent and child lessons, so I am always in the water too. I have also noted that he is not wearing a wedding ring, and I really like the way that he deals with the young children, very kind and sensitive to them, but also strict when they are not listening. My priority is for ds to learn to swim, as he is nearly there, but I want to flirt with his teacher with a view to asking him for a drink. Is this wrong? Do I have to wait until ds learns to swim?

Had very depressing conversation this morning with one of my male friends (all of them these days are married fathers!) and he says that men are unfailingly polite and neither man sounds interested. I then wonder why a man would repeatedly reply to my invitations by saying, "That sounds excellent. I would love to come. What day did you have in mind?" but then be unable to come citing work or other last minute commitments, and my friend says it is cultural conditioning in English men to avoid conflict by saying yes but afterwards finding an excuse. I offered this guy "a couple" of tickets which is why it seems weird that he should reply, as usual that it sounds excellent and he would love to come, but then ask me how many spare tickets I have and who he should bring. All this dialogue is via email, without emoticons! The friend then says that I have made many overtures and he thinks the guy is not interested because he has only passively been saying he would like to come, and not suggesting anything himself. The friend has no ideas about the teacher, apart from giving him my business card after the last lesson(!) and said friend says, anyway, he has never been one to ask anything directly so can't advise on asking people out. So, then I wonder how come he ever got married, unless his wife did all the running, and conclude from my knowledge of her (another friend) I bet she did! I must be so hideous these days that I can't even get casual sex, or am I surrounded by men who have lost their concept of fun and imagination (if ever had it) from working all the time? Yesterday evening I bumped into a schoolfriend on the Tube whom I had not seen for 12 years, and she is working as an editor for a big glossy fashion magazine, wearing some designer smock sundress, and as I was with ds and the topic of children came up I asked if she was expecting (she wasn't!). And even after that, which normally offends, just as she was getting off, after summarising our last 12 years to each other in 10 mins, she goes, "By the way, you look fantastic," which was the only compliment I have had for months, and very lovely at the end of a hot sweaty day at work. What is the way forward? Shall I just write, "I fancy you," on the back of my business card and start handing it out, and save myself from these pointless email dialogues, and one-sided overtures? I have met www and CD and vivat, so you can offer an educated view on whether I really am that scary that men would feel that they had to pretend they wanted to meet me out of politeness.

Turnagaincat - I think its a minefield, and I for 1 do not know exactly how to go about meeting people with 3 children and little recent experience. Such experience as I have had (have been single for nearly 2 years) suggests that the men are just as confused as we are - including not knowing whether we are single etc etc. If you pick up any handy tips please let me know!

Message withdrawn

thanks for your messages. spoke to a gay colleague just now and asked him at what age straight men lose interest in casual sex and explained to him the issues, and he said he has no idea but men never should, and how weird that these men would not just say no in the beginning. i wish i would meet a straight man who could be so straightforward. i have not read the rules, but i have read about it, and i think it is hideous and primitive. i would like a male partner with some initiative, but i could never be in a relationship with someone which involved me pretending to be demure and unassertive, and lying about what i earn and pretending not to be successful, in order to massage his ego. i actually have been using a "strategy" book which was written to counter the rules, by someone who says that if you are independent and have lots of friends and activities, you should be bold and ask lots of men out, so that you can find someone who likes that type of woman. perhaps that is the answer, then, that i am simply going through the stage of eliminating men who are attracted to docile timid women? the one in a million who actually like confident women were the ones who all got married first.

TAC, if you are who I think you are then you're gorgeous and these men are mad! (you are if we had a conversation about a colleague of yours and potential romance.) I totally agree about The bloody Rules, they're a load of anti feminist, offensive nonsense. I remember reading somewhere that if a man doesn't ring you, it's not because he's lost your number or is ill or has died: it's because he didn't want to ring you. There's some logic to that isn't there? I'd give up with swimming teacher guy then, you've made it clear you're interested, he can't be bothered to make the effort to be available on a day you invite him and he doesn't suggest an alternative so I'd forget it in your position I think. Maybe you need to wait for what a friend described as 'the first rash of divorces.' (she did and married one!)

TAC, I think maybe you are analysing things a bit too much. I also think that the guys who say yes but don't really mean it are being polite, I think if they were keen and/or single they would make some effort to go out with you even if they could not make the date you originally suggested.

I think it is great that you can be forward if you like the look of a guy and I am sure that sooner or later things will happen, maybe when you least expect it.

A couple of single Mums have approached me to go out but I did not fancy them at all. One of them later apologised 'for being so selfish' (she knows some of my sad situation) and I said there is absolutely no need to apologise, it is nice to get some attention, everybody likes to get some attention sometimes and I said it is great that you were brave enough to approach me without knowing me at all.

I have never been approached by a woman who I really fancy, but it would be great if I was. I like confident women.
By the way I am a single Dad of three kids.

Oh TAC, I've been in very similar situations, and utterly confused about it all. Don't despair. FWIW I think you're doing the right thing by asking blokes out if you like them. And you can't possibly be as old as I am, and - in the end - it worked out for me.

Aaahhhh, more frustration - you will all be pleased to hear that I have now given up on both of the characters mentioned in this thread, but just wanted to express my frustration that I am still getting messages from the one who is always busy. In response to his message asking how many spare tickets I had, I replied last Monday saying it was all up in the air because of the potential football clash which meant various friends' partners were refusing to babysit, and that I was too busy to call them all before the weekend, and the football issue probably affected him too, so I said that the answer was I did not know how many spare tickets I had, but since I had offered a couple, he should feel free to take up 0, 1 or 2. I thought that was very clear even to someone handicapped by politeness and would enable him to do as he pleased. I expected a polite message before Thursday evening opting out because of football or his standard workload excuse. However, now I get a message saying he suddenly has to go away that evening because of work and only found out yesterday and is very sorry and hopes it is not rude and inconvenient to me, and very much hopes that we get to do something together soon. This is the 5th occasion that I have suggested something to do on a particular date and got this same response from him. I am deliberately going to stop inviting him to anything, even though I am doing something next week which I know he is supposedly very keen to do. I am extra annoyed because my friend who normally collects ds when I have to give a lecture after work is getting divorced and I had to pay for a babysitter for the whole of this evening, which is very expensive and so I am having to go the cinema alone today after my lecture, to "use up" and not "waste" the extra babysitting time, and if either of these guys were remotely normal or intelligible then I would just have asked one of them to come with me.

no longer fed up. my old schoolfriend is coming to the pictures with me on a few hours' notice. welcome experience of how easy it is to meet up when your friend actually wants to see you and is not a workaholic.