Advice re parenting

[wirral]

I am at a loss and really need some words of wisdom

I strongly object to my 11 year old daughter getting her ears pierced. My ex knows this but is still going to take her when he has her this week.

I am so lost as to what to do. It seems to me that my wishes count for nothing and that my rules don't count. My daughter has very little respect for either my ex or myself and this will just compound matters.

Sorry this is a very small issue but I am so very upset about this

Do you think so? I am trying to stand back and see what you're seeing.

I used the example of her missing school when not ill and the fact that ex then "allows" her to stay off school and lets her have a good time and allows her to dictate that she will not return to her Mum because her Mum has told her off for missing school

Will give it some thought - you may be right but I'm not seeing it at moment.

"I have no problem with the boundaries he sets whilst she's there but I do worry about the impact of them on her behaviour" it is a huge worry isn't it. I have a step daughter as well as my own DD so I worry about the impact of each of their 'other' parents lack of rules.

I totally get what youre saying - she's disobeyed you and he's undermined you bu allowing it. But no matter what you say or do, when she is at his house it is his rules that apply. In fact, the more fuss you make, the worse he and she will behave, because you're giving the reaction he wants.

You simply can't control what happens there.

I actually think if you let her get on with what ever her dad sees fit while she's there, and continue to set reasonable mature parent boundires at your house, she'll crave that stability and slowly come back to you.

Ok - thanks Berkshirefem, I think that explains things a bit more to me.

The problem with the missing school day (apart from impact on her education) was that, because I disciplined her, she refused to return to my house, and did not suffer any consequences for it.

Similar to the ear piercing dilemma. I bet you any amount of money that even if ex doesn't get her ears pierced. He will (correctly) blame me for not letting her and she will refuse to return back to me as arranged.

I am getting to the stage that I am "scared" - better word would be "reluctant" to discipline her as she throws a tantrum and goes to live with her Dad.

I wil stand my ground over the ear piercing. I can't stop her having them done but do not want her to wear the earrings in my house. But I again, I bet she will refuse to return.

Who does she live with the most?

I'd be scared too and it's hard to say for certain without knowing your DD, but I'd be surprised if standing your ground in a firm but fair way, but allowing her dad to parent in his own way as well doesn't work in the long run.

It could be that once he stops seeing that he's getting to you, he stops bothering with these games and gets bored of having your DD there.

Often the most lenient parents are the ones with the lowest boredom threshold in the parenting game.

Who does she want to live with the most??

Who knows? Her Dad when in trouble at my house. My house when she has had a row with him or his girlfriend.

I don't think she should be allowed to chose based on who agrees with her the most.

Ok, the bottom line here is that your ex is allowing things where clearly he should not. There's a lesson here he deeply needs to learn. And that is that you need to present a united front. Him playing good cop to your bad cop serves your DD no good at all.

The example you gave about refusing to come home. Your ex should have dragged her sorry arse out and gave her a good old fashioned bollocking. I remember a while back when my ex returned our kids and told me that DS had been a snappy little git with her all weekend. Secretly I was lol'ing. But I proper rollocked him for disrespecting his mum and made him apologise to her.

The problem is that by allowing your daughter to stay at his, he's allowed DD to punish YOU. It's one thing for him to disagree with you and make a decision regardless of your wishes. It's quite another to purposely allow your daughter to disrespect you.

It's a tough one but at the end of the day is it really important? Can you discuss it with her and your ex and say that you will agree to this but that you would welcome discussions together about important things in future?

Sorry Wirral, crossposted with you. Totally agree on your last statement. In fact, the other parent should in that case actively refuse. Otherwise DD just plays you off against each other by withholding her affection accordingly.

Any chance you can sit down with your ex on neutral ground and make him see sense? Things are going to get worse as she hits her teenage years before it gets better. And if you can't present a united front, I fear you are doomed.

I fear doom as well. We've been into school and decided on a plan of action. To present a united front and keep all arguments away from daughter. Ex agrees - when it suits him. Daughter phones me from his begging to come home. I would dearly love her home, ask to speak to ex who (quite rightly) wants her to stay at his, I support him.

I have been sitting in garden and wondering if equating things like this with work would help. Sadly we have this "after action review" type of meeting where we assess what happened on events, what was a success and what we could do better.

On the day she feigned illness, I readily admit that I should have contacted ex first to give him a heads up! I have learned and will do better in future. I KNOW that I make mistakes. I do think ex is a good Dad, but he gives into her far too easily. I am just not sure that he would take any sort of advice or suggestion from me

Dreading teenage years!! Bring on the gin!!

Hi Wirral - I remember your previous posts, you sound like things have come on a bit at least!
But I remembre suggesting seeing a solicitor to draw up a firm, binding arrangement for you both to have contact with your DD and then she (nor he) can't use contact to manipulate you. Would that be at all practical?

Pickgo, I did wonder if anyone would remember me! Thanks so much for the support in the past. A terrible, terrible time!

We do have a court order stating the contact arrangments. It was drawn up when daughter was 6 and I always maintained that it would alter as and when necessary as daughter grew up.

Since her moving out and now back the contact arrangments are very much 50/50 - around Ex's shifts (which irritates a tad but I will go along with).

The trouble that we both have is what to do when she refuses to go to the other's house (or school). It would be an actual physical battle. I have tried pulling and forcing her but it isn't really on when she is 11 and physically quite strong herself. A court order wouldn't help. Neither ex nor I have any problems whatsoever with the contact arrangements as they are now. The trouble that we have is making daughter adhere to them.

(I did smile when I saw your name Pickgo - the support of virtual strangers has always astounded me)

As an aside, I've been reading tonight about a text exchange from a daughter to a mother who was caught up in the shootings in Norway and suddenly all my problems seem to pale into insignificance (am tempted to say, "go ahead get your ears pierced, at least you are alive, well and looking forward to the future") But I won't as need to try to instill some sort of discipline

Thanks all x

If you & your ex agree this is a real issue then the only solution is to be totally and utterly united about it. If it were me, I'd drive over to my ex's house and if necessary I'd physically remove her. And vice versa. Extreme? Perhaps but the bottom line is she does not get her own way. But only because she's using it as a form of control over the both of you and you both need to get it back. She's the child, you are the parents. Once she realises you are united and she can't play you off against each other, things will calm down. But it will get worse before it gets better. The longer you leave it, the worse it will get.

A friend of mine had a similar issue a while back with his son threatening the same. ie. "If you don't let me do x then I'm going to call my dad and live with him" Now as much as my mate would love that he simply said "No." And the classic line I remember "If I have to drive down there at stupid o'clock because your mum says she can't control you then it's going to hurt!"

It doesn't sound like you are that far apart. To me it just seems a case of sticking together, toughing it out and not giving in. As the old adage goes "united we stand, divided we fall"

It's the "physical" aspect of it Niceguy. I physically can't manhandle her and ex won't. It is a very difficult situation for both of us. The idea of physically picking up an 11 / 12 year old child who is gripping onto anything at hand then manhandling her into car, keeping her in car, driving car whilst she is kicking and screaming and trying to get out. I just haven't found a way of managing to do it! Nor has ex.

The only way that I can think of trying to do it is to come down hard on areas of her life that I can control (the pierced ears). Alter your behaviour and I (and your Dad) will allow it

I can see why physical force is not going to work - and it wouldn't really address the problem that she is dividing to rule as NG says.
You could try scaring the hell out of her re bunking school - that you'll ring the school and tell them. Truancy officer for her, possibly care etc.. And in any case only losers are too weak to manage the short school day (remember saying that to my teen DS - got a load of backchat but he didn't miss school again!).
But ultimately unless you and dad can stand firm together as NG says, it won't work on the musical houses front.
Are co-parenting relations with X any better now? Is he beginning to see that he is being taken for a fool by DD yet? Can you talk to GF at all?

The key thing is both parents need to be united and confront her.

If you can't/won't manhandle her then how about letting her stay but offsetting the days so she's not gaining anything so to speak.

What I mean is say she refuses to go to dad's. OK, she stays. But each night she refuses to go, dad gets an extra night. Secondly whilst she's at yours, she's banished to her room with no privileges. No TV, no music, no phone. If she's anything like my teen, the lack of phone will soon have her caving in.

Niceguy.

You'd really manhandle an 11-year-old out of a house and into a car?

How? Springs to mind.

ask about local courses for parenting teens (as sounds likeshe already there emotionally! or as niceguy said - it only gonna get worse...) i know some parents have said they found it really useful- about boundary setting and such. maybe if you and ex went along together?

Look at the end of the day the key thing here is that the parents are not consistent and not united. Dad seems more comfortable being good cop/best mate than a dad. Mum is trying but failing and it's hard when you are being undermined by dad. It's just about tolerable if he only had small amount of access but when's it's 50-50 it's absolutely imperative they stick together.

I bet you any money if dad came round to mum's and threatened to drag her sorry arse out and into the car. In the face of both parents wrath, she'd go. Personally I'd add on top of that a grounding/no pocket money for being defiant in the first place with the other parent, just to show you back each other up. The manhandle is a threat. One which I'd personally do if push came to absolute shove. The bottom line is DD cannot be allowed to win this battle as she needs to learn that her parents are still in charge....jointly.

The situation has been going on for some time now I bet and DD has grown used to ruling the roost. Jesus, she's able to decide not to go to school and dad just rolls over! If that were my child she'd be told. She goes to school, end of. If that means I have to drag her there kicking & screaming then I will. It wouldn't be me who looks the idiot in front of her friends.....

Wirral I remember your previous posts. I particularly remember the one where you told us that your DD had decided to go and live with your ex.

I think that part of the problem here is that she's now discovering that the grass isn't always greener. Stick to your guns on the ear piercing. That's your opinion and as your one of her parents, your view is valid. Let them go ahead and get it done. But your very valid point has been made and she - and he, for that matter - will be very well aware of it.

As for school attendance, I'm with niceguy - it's not going to be me who's embarrassed in front of my friends, it will be her. She's 11 and needs to be aware of who's the boss of her - which is you and your ex. Your ex and you really need to present a united front and maintain constant communication with regard to her beviour/school attendance/withdrawal of privileges etc.

I know that's hard, but it will be a whole lot easier in the long run if you are both singing from the same song sheet. It's like toddler training, but takes longer.