Can I/Should I stop contact?

[BlueistheColourIthink]

Hi,

A little bit of back ground from a lurker and the hope of some advice.

Background:
Ex and I split 3 years ago. Have had an informal agreement between us since then to split contact on a 3 day rotation. We live 5 minutes away at the opposite ends of the same (long) road. History of emotional abuse and minimal physical during the relationship.

My daughter rarely wants to go to Daddy's but usually with some cajoling/encouragement does go and seems, on the whole to be ok while she's there.

The issue is that twice recently, on swaps, my ex has physically pushed me out of the house. On both occasions they were during a heated discussion, both started by him and both in front of my daughter. On both occasions I was trying to calm things down and leave things nicely (for daughter's sake) when he pushed me out the house. Today, it was with such force that I landed on the pavement, hitting my head. My daughter saw this and was concerned, I managed, on the whole to shake it off as Mummy falling over but from the questions she's asked today I think she's very much aware that it wasn't that.

I'm not really sure what else to say. I don't feel like she should go back, I can't be sure of her safety. I know she doesn't want to go back, but at the same time she's 5 so how much do I take from her opinion on things? I've explained what she saw today as minimally as possible, without dwelling on it, answering her questions with as little detail and as factually as possible.

What should I be doing? What position would I be in if I decided to move away? This is feeling very tempting to me at the moment, school and job disruption aside. I know this is because I'd rather not have to deal with the situation he's put us in. I know it's a silly thing to think but I just wish it hadn't happened.

Blue

I have an ex like that and TBH I think by now you must realise that it is best not to interact too much with him. Perhaps you spent your marriage trying to pacify him (as did I), but now you really don't need to nor should you want to.
Ignore, ignore, ignore, why on earth did you go back to talk to him
I am not at all, in any way, saying this excuses his behaviour, but really don't give him the chance to escalate things.

he'd be unlikely to be able to prevent a move if you could show good reason for it and that you have good plans in place - for example a good house in a good area, family support close by, good schools etc etc.

On both occasions they were during a heated discussion, both started by him and both in front of my daughter. On both occasions I was trying to calm things down and leave things nicely (for daughter's sake) when pushed me out the house. Today, it was with such force that I landed on the pavement, hitting my head. My daughter saw this

This man has abused his child. Anyone who abuses a child's parent in front of that child is an abuser. Provocation is not an excuse. Most people - most men - do not go around throwing their ex's physically onto the street so hard they hit their head. It's not the first time this man has done this in front of the child and there is already a history of abuse.

Social services would have a very clear opinion on this. If the mother had stayed she would be criticised for failing to protect, because at least SS recognise the emotional effects of abuse on a child, even if the courts do not.

Abusive men should only ever have supervised contact with children IMO. Anyone capable of abusing a partner is capable of abusing a child, because it's all about entitlement - considering your needs to be more important than anyone else's. An abuser will trample over anyone unable to stand up to them - which makes children particularly vulnerable.

OP, most NRPs are not like this. Sadly, yours is. You need to protect yourself and your child and get this all down on record. I'm very sorry for you both.

I wouldn't see a solicitor, you have been managing fine without them this far but I would report the assault to the police, if he is shoving you hard enough for you to lose your footing that is an assault and there are no excuses. It's a shame but you can't carry on with the nice situation of going into each others homes, it was good that you tried but it rarely works out.

Just hand over your child at the door and he can do the same, you don't need solicitors. If he was a danger to your child you'd know it by now, from what you've posted there isn't enough to warrant preventing contact.

Although you could do it, he'd then have to go to court, you'd have to get a solicitor, youd all pay thousands of pounds to them for something you could sort yourself without that nightmare. Trust me famiy courts are a nightmare I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy and the judge wouldn't be impressed if a parent stopped contact on the grounds you have given.

Just hand over at the doors it's much easier.

Moving wouldn't help either, if you just moved a few miles away as you have a job and dd a school, he'd still get contact you'd just have further to travel, with you picking up the bill. If you want to move to stop contact you'd literally have to go to a country that isn't ratified to the Haigue or Geneva Convention, I can never remember which one. :)

I have had no contact with my abusive ex for 8 years now and have had daily/weekly contact with my children.

After the initial "Biting of lip at every annoyance" it's all gone very well and the children benefit from the arrangement i've unilaterally imposed.

In my personal exerience the no contact with my ex has worked from all sides.

If Blue is still around it would be interesting to get a bit of an update from her regarding the situation.

To sunshineandbooks i'd also say that you would also be prepared to stand by the same sentiments that a mother who was abusive to their partner in front of the child should also have supervised contact? Men are less likely to report domestic violence and its about the same men/women that commit domestic violence against the opposite gender (partner).

This would of course prevent serious problems, the event (as viewed by the Police and the Courts) would no doubt be taken down the Domestic route anyway i'd hazard given the background. While it is Assault it falls under the Domestic umbrella.

Be nice to hear back from Blue

Riakin. I have a letter from SS which boils down to no unsupervised contact for my DD's mother due to DV between her and her partner, which was witnessed by DD. Does that cover what you're talking about?

Hi PCBC,

It is dependant on the circumstances. In a single event, its highly unlikely that Social Services would be able to enforce a no contact order or even a supervision only order.

I take it your case involved several instances? I honestly cannot think of one instance (certainly that i have heard) where SS have just up and stopped the situation because of one instance of DV. Lets not forget that these days the DV spectrum is both highly open to interpretation and equally entirely against the ethos of the DV issue. For example shouting is now construed under courts to be DV, in my opinion highly wrong and used in many cases as leverage for usually a bitter parent to seek some form of revenge.

Many courts as well still today operate a no contact order because of 2 or 3 incidents of arguments over several months claiming this to be in the best interests of the child.

If Blue is around, would be nice to hear how things are going.

i think as riakin said a singel incident of shouting/assualt whatever mgit not be enough - woudl be the picture over months/years.

there were enough incidents to ensure court ordered supervised contact - but with direction from judge end 2009 to move this on to unsupervised (hence clause sauying "any other contact as agreed" - there seems to eb a feelign that teh DV/agression happens then if split is managed and contact ebtween aprties reduced (ie court order can say handover outside home or third party) then in many circumstances the situation settles down, teh DV doesnt occur because there is regular contact with DC but contact between the exes is regulated.
eg contact centre usually expected to run for short time eg eight sessions then progress to supervised outside c centre then unsupervised ...

when it does not settle down and the abuse/violence/agression continues in a number of incidents then supervised will continue. or families go back to the contact centre.

SS certainly want me to stick to supervised because of behaviour from exP over past four years - and his (reported and documented) faillure to adequately care for DC when it did progress to unsupervised in 2010 as well as continued lapses into MH episodes in which he becomes violent.... .

he still really does not understand we are separated for good and still keeps on about "being a family again" saying this to the DC in text and email and to the supervisor - serious MH issue there