can jobseekers be cut with a dyspraxic 13 year old who can't be left?

[jamestkirk]

hi

i'm posting this for a friend. she's been on jobseekers for about 18 months after being made redundant. she doesnt drive and has two children at different schools which makes school run time hectic and limits the hours that can be worked.
after applying for local jobs that offer suitable hours but not even getting an interview she's now worried that jobseekers allowance could be cut if she doesnt find work soon. the trouble is her eldest who is 13 has some form of undiagnosed dyspraxia. this means he can't be left for long. he wouldnt beable to get ready, lock up and get himself to school on a morning and certainly couldnt be left all day in the school holidays.
the problem is that, altho dyspraxia was discussed when at primary school its never been formally diagnosed. and now at 13 he's seen as being able to fend for himself.
can the jobseekers people insist that she apply for all vacancies that come up and attend interviews even if for full time jobs. otherwise can they demand proof of his condition - if so does anyone know how to go about getting it? otherwise she's now worried that jsa could be cut.
i may well have missed something out but any advice would be helpful - thanks.

Thanks jellykat i'll tell you what I can remember and maybe you can make some sense of it for me! About a year after ds started school I was called in and told something wasn't right. I had no idea as he was a pretty bright kid, excellent speech from an early age although slow to walk and very clumsy. We then had the OT appts and SENCO meetings at school until he left. The only time I heard anything about dyspraxia was I think about a year before he left when I saw it written on the papers during a meeting at the school. I asked what this was. The SENCO said "has nobody ever mentioned this to you?" Obviously I said no, cue silence and everyone around the table giving each other funny looks. Then a bit of info...that was about it until shortly before he left when they told me he wouldn't get help at secondary.

Unless you have taken him to a specialist at the hospital he cannot have been diagnosed with dyspraxia.

Go to your gp and ask for a referral to a specialist.

This is where the confusion lies change...so should I be taking his reports with me to show what the SENCO said?

I'd start with your GP and get him referred to a specialist for a diagnosis first.

They can better assess and they can also sign DLA forms.

I don't know about SENCO because we're in Scotland and my daughter sees an educational psychologist as well as a paed for her learning needs.

It's paramount this child gets the help he needs now.

SFP- Seems like the 'funny looks' may have been a realization of a massive lack of communication!The OT should've referred to the Paed consultant.

Have you had any contact with his present school SENCO?- They will have all the Primary school records..You,and your GP should have been sent copies of all letters sent from OT to school..

However i would make an appt. with the new SENCO at Secondary school,and find out who made the Dyspraxic diagnosis,and where you are exactly first.

IMO if you go to your GP,he could be as much in the dark as you re.which stage you got to.For all you know, the OT could have already made the diagnosis ..It will be in DSs Educational records for sure.

He did have a few problems when he first went to secondary where I had a word along the lines of "are you aware of this, that and the other, dyspraxia, blah blah" and his form tutor assured me that they were well aware of it and that she was a SEN teacher herself. So yes, there must be something there in his records.

I think it's probaby right, massive lack of communication and lack of knowledge on my part.

Well it's always a catch up process,you wouldn't know to look these things up if they'd never told you in the first place,and you probably just trusted them to get on with what they were trained to do..
But i've learnt that sometimes you have to give them a kick up the backside

You need to find out if he was 'statemented'at any point, via the SENCO..

Then if he is, go see your Lone Parent Advisor at the job centre and ask if that would qualify for DLA,or at least a recognized requirement that any jobs' would have to end at 3.30 so that you can meet your sons needs.

Don't forget,another possibility is working from home,with Tax Credits..that's what i do,it means i can meet DS2 off the school bus etc..

Good luck! You can PM me anytime if you ever need to.

Thanks that's really nice of you

I think perhaps some got the wrong impression that I feel unable to work at all which of course isn't the case, school hours are fine, I just couldn't leave ds on his own if it came to it.

Monday I am on the case to find out where we stand!

I have a DS with DCD (dyspraxia) and we have had reports for every OT meeting he has had. I was wondering if it was possible for you to go back to the primary school to get hold of some paper work - they should have copies or at least tell you how to track it down. I wouldn't be surprised if the secondary school don't have the letters themselves - DS's reports didn't even transfer from the infants to the juniors on the same site. The juniors knew about the dx but not the detail and I fully expect the secondary school will need me to give them copies of everything too. It is hard to know what you are entitled to see though, isn't it, and how were you supposed to know it would be important?! Failing that I would go back to the OT department to see what they have. Can you remember who you last spoke to there?

If you get no joy there then the best thing is to get a referral from your GP to see a pead who will sort out assessments. Don't bother with an ed psych. They can't diagnose.

I think it is standard procedure that children no longer get support from an OT after Primary school. We won't when DS leaves in July but the reasoning is that they have learnt coping skills by 11.

I also suprised that some people don't think that social skills are affected by DCD. Have a look at a book called Caged in Chaos. It is about about dyspraxia in teenagers and might have tips on coping for your DS. It does also talk about social skills in quite a bit of detail as a symptom. It's a good read - I recognised so much of my DS in it which in a strange way was reassuring.

FWIW I totally understand the head in the clouds thing. My DS seems to have little awareness of where he is in relation to other things or people. He forgets to look for car when crossing the road and bumps into people all the time. His procedural memory is rubbish and he can't remember what to do from one minute to the next - stop, look, listen, when crossing the road is lost on him and it scares me especially as he is starting secondary in Sept.

Anyway, good luck with sorting something out.

i'm not accusing you of being workshy, but your friend started a thread entitled 'can jobseekers be cut' not 'what help can a child with dyspraxia get?'

i'm not suggesting you are exaggerating your son's difficulties. i've got 3 kids, one with cerebral palsy, and one with adhd/ as tendencies. i'm entirely familiar with the difficulties of working around kids, let alone kids who have disabilities. but you did it before - i was just asking how you had managed that, and why your situation was different now... just trying to work out your actual difficulty in respect to your current arrangements.

but as i said, the priority is getting help for your child, if he needs it. which is why i asked what additional help he was getting at school etc. i worked as an lsa in secondary briefly working with some kids with dyspraxia, some with aspergers, some adhd etc etc - there are parents who are not involved in their child's education, whether the fault of the parent or the school is often impossible to tell - but the learning support department will have him on their radar and be aware of any additional support he is getting, if he transitioned with any history, and if he is currently having difficulties as a result of his dyspraxia/ other issues. if he is keeping up at school, managing to get to all his classes on time with everything he needs, get to pe and organise getting changed in and out of pe kit, keep up with the amount of handwriting (legibly), get himself to the lunch hall and back to registration, you might find it more difficult to get their help with any referrals for ot etc. does he have access to a laptop for submission of homework? does he get extra time in written tests? all are areas that might need accomodations for a child that struggles with organisation/ fine motor. ask for copies of all ieps that they hold on file.

no judging. no spoiling for a fight. help is more difficult to get in secondary, but most decent sized secondaries have large-ish learning support departments that co-ordinate the lsa time/ allocate according to need judging on the amount of kids, on sa, sa+, statemented etc.

(and lol at me getting tarred as a benefits nazi. don't think i've ever been on a benefits thread before! it was the dyspraxia link that interested me, as i'm more than aware of the difficulties.)

i would think that given your younger child is young you would be able to stick to school hours.
I have a few friends who are childminders and they both have older children come to them after school, and afterschool care is £10-15 so might be worth considering.

I would just agree with what others said about going to see GP

You won't need to receive DLA/CA in order to limit your jobsearch to school hours - it's explained in the Gingerbread document I linked to. As long as you have a child under 13, they can't force you to apply for jobs outside school hours.

I think it would be worth cutting back on your work in any case and focus on supporting your DS. I have a DS with a similar profile and he's been diagnosed with dyspraxia and Aspergers. He receives a lot of support from school but only because I've pushed for it - it's taken years of writing letters, attending meetings and legal challenges to secure all of that.

my son has a diagnosis of dyspraxia and there is no way i could leave him at home on his own when he reaches 13,if you have to work your going to have to find suitable childcare for him.your council will have a list of childminders that you could go through and see who would be willing to take him.

to be honest as it is your going to struggle without a diagnosis, the fact your child has coped with school and they dont seem to be that concerned, he does not have a statement, you havent claimed DLA, OT or paed are not involved and hes 13 says it all i very much doubt your going to have a leg to stand on for example my son who has wads and wads full of reports but you dont appear to have anything to back up the fact you cant work.

pinkstarlight, i'm really not being an arse but I do wish people would actually read what i've said: I have ALWAYS worked....i'm NOT saying I cant work. Due to the fact I have always worked until 18 months ago when I was made redundant, i've never had to claim jobseekers before and it really worried me that I may be forced to leave ds alone if I cant find anything within school hours. If I knew anything about the benefits system I wouldn't be asking!

Thanks everyone else for your helpful comments, I am looking into it.

hey im not out to judge you im just saying how it is,having a diagnosis would give you breathing space to find something suitable. theres going to be alot of pressure put on people to find a job and alot of single mums effected by the changes.

sorry pinkstarlight, I guess i'm a bit snippy. We had a death in the family at the weekend and i'm still reeling which was why I didn't reply to the thread sooner. As soon as I wrote that last post I realised I was being spiky .

It's so frustrating...I hate sitting here looking at the four walls every day. I'd love to be working, i've really tried to get another job and when I think i'm being accused of lazyness I get the grumps

You won't need wads of reports as your youngest child is only 7. Your older son could be fully NT for all they care, but as long as your youngest is under 13, they can't push you into working outside school hours. It might be a problem in five years' time when your youngest is older, but hopefully your DS will have matured enough by then, or you'll have managed to get appropriate support.

HI, Ive just registered so I can reply to this as its close to my heart.

Personally I think your first port of call may be the Secondary School Parent Support Adviser(the school will put you in contact with them if you phone in and ask), they are really good and will be able to listen to your concerns then talk to the SENCO and your daughters teacher to see if they have any concerns after telling them what yours are and the history, you could write a letter detailing what you have said here. The parent support person will be able to tell you the best way to go about getting her seen by the right people. Parent Support also know all about benefits and how the whole system works so they can help you there too, my DH left me with my 3 children last year and I had no idea where to turn and Parent support were amazing, she took me to 'parents apart' who are also really helpful regarding benefits so they may be worth you contacting for advise. GP's often won;t refer and the school is often the best route to go down.

My son has AUTISM and ADHD but it was a nightmare getting him diagnosed and any help and in the end I was so desparate I went to parent support and she sorted everything even getting Autism Outreach to assess him while she was in the school, she then insisted the Ed psyc reffered him to a consultant for a diagnosis as he was so obviousely Autistic but the school refused to tell me what was going on but instead kept telling me he was fine!!! I had already spent 8 years begging the doctor the get him seen by someone but he refused. It is a post code lottery and every area is different.

Unless a child has an obvious dissability it is very hard to get them seen by experts and it really is soul destroying when people say they will grow out of it when they are not changing.

As for your DS not having an OT I am not surprised, my son's team at CHAMs where he is supposed to see an OT and consultant is being dispanded so he has no professionals working with him in that area at all and he is suffering for it. So please don't feel like you have done anything wrong, if you are not told anything you won;t know, it isn;t your fault. The only reason my son gets the little help he has at school is because I go in regularly and have to nag and nag, he has a statement but again that took 2 years to organise and push for and then it is not adheared to.

Good luck, read lots on the internet, join some specific forums for advise on what to say to get help from school (you need to know your stuff) and don;t worry about people going on about benefits. People put me down when I had money and had never claimed benefits, not even tax credits, before my DH left and now I get put down in a big way because I have been forced to claim benefits since he left and I didn't have enough to pay the bills!! You will never win so sod em lol xx

Hi, like teataster, this is close to my heart.

My youngest Ds is currently going through the process of being officially diagnosed with Aspergers and dyspraxia. He is 10yrs old. Since he was 4yrs, he has seen medical consultant after consultant. It was deemed by a genetic consultant that he had an 'unknown syndrome' and that he ticked enough boxes to be diagnosed with ASD (autistic spectrum disorder) but that they wanted to concentrate on investigating the 'syndrome'. Fast forward 5 years and he is still undiagnosed. To look and watch him, he appears ok. To live with him is different. Unfortunately, the school would only ever say that he was ok. He clearly wasn't coping in school and we had education psychologists involved etc. Lots was done to help him but when it came to them filling out forms for the hospital, thay said all was ok. I ended up feeling completely confused about my son and if there was something wrong or if I was going round the bend. I even had it suggested to me that I was making some of these things up or exaggerating. I was just an over protective mum (though my older child had none of this).

Last year, I became a lone parent when my husband decided he wanted out of our marriage. Circumstances meant that I had to move home to another city completely and for the first time in my life, claim benefits. Ds's went to new schools and lo and behold, within the first term, I was called to a meeting to discuss my youngest. 7 professionals at the meeting all thought that my youngest was ASD and explained that they were shocked that he had 'fallen through the net' and been left undiagnosed. So he is currently being fast tracked through the system to get a formal diagnosis. This could still take upto a year though. Meanwhile, I have to 'sign on' every fortnight and explain what i've done to look for a job etc and hope that they'll award me JSA that week. Jobs that I can do are scarce due to my child care problems (had I no children, I could do what I am qualified to do). I cannot leave my Ds with people that he doesn't know really well and can't ever see me being able to do this or leave him on his own.

For over 5 years I have had to battle with schools and doctors over my son, and everyone elses opinions. Now, in a new area, things are really straight forward. Everyone sees what I have always seen. My claim for DLA was turned down last year due to the schools opinions. This year, with diagnosis and the new school behind me , it won't be such a problem.

While I wait though, I run the risk of not getting my JSA if I don't actively look for work. As said already in previous posts, I am allowed to look only at jobs that are term-time and school hours. It doesn't stop them taking me to task everytime I sign on though. I do have an interview coming up, so fingers crossed.

My advice to you -

Stop worrying about what other people think or say. It is only their opinion. You may agree, you may disagree. Take a deep breathe, stand up tall and fight for what you think needs done - regardless of anyone's opinion. It can be difficult to push for diagnosis when others treat you as a pushy/over reacting/ excusing mum or as someone who's looking for attention. No-one else will stand up for your children like you would, so don't be intimidated by schools or hospitals.

Apply for jobs that you could do, term time during school hours. Arrange interviews and go along for the experience. Explain that you'd need exact hours etc because of your son and would need time off in the summer etc. If they offer the job, fantastic! If not, you tried.

Meanwhile, take your son to the doctor and ask her to refer him to whomever carries out examinations for ASD, Dyspraxia and anything else they think appropriate. Again, do not worry about what anyone else thinks. If you think it about your son, that is enough. You could also self refer him to the speech therapy department and ask them to test his 'social language' etc. Also, you could self refer to the Occupational Therapy dept and ask them to test for Dyspraxia etc. on the basis that you have always had concerns that this has not been properly tested for.

You have genuine concerns for him and you are doing the right thing to not be forced to leave him alone. I agree with what teataster says and it could be that we are in different systems but the principals are the same. It is difficult to get diagnosis of some conditions especially if they are not easy to see and can be put down to bad behaviour etc. People who comment otherwise have obviously no experience in this. Surround yourself in people who do know about this. It will give you strength!

Good Luck!

Thanks again for messages. I haven't managed to get an appointment for him yet with gp. My ibs has flared up again and without being vulgar...I haven't been able to leave the house at all God knows how i'll get on when the slightest bit of stress has this effect on me.

I feel so frustrated in every way...I need to get help for him. He's a pretty good teenager considering how some turn out but he's had such a hard time. Last year I found out that neighbours I thought were friends had been gossiping about him and his actions towards their kids (some of those kids he'd been out playing with since he was six). Apparently he was too rough with them. He can be rough in play, I know, but he'd never intentionally hurt anyone. I've sat here before watching out of the window and seen some of those kids hit him and he's not responded apart from to stand there with tears in his eyes. When I asked him why he didn't do anything back he said "I cant mum, they're smaller than me".

Yet another time when he'd just come back from a weekend at his dads I was in the garden clearing branches and a few of the kids just decided to help me, jumping in the green bin blah blah blah etc and we were having a great time (lovely change from the usual spitting over my garden fence and swearing at us, yes, they are rough kids some of them). Ds picked them out and insulted them one by one. He told two of them they were pains in the ass (true, but not for him to say and not when they were being helpful), told another he was a big wuss, another he was a spoilt little bugger, then called another girl fatty and so on until he'd upset all of them.

I called him in and tried to speak to him about it. He got very upset, said he was only joking and couldn't understand what he'd done wrong. Then he starts the hair pulling again...he's pulled and twisted his hair so much I have to keep taking it off with the clippers as it's uneven and broken all over.

He's been branded as a bully. Now he has no friends at all where we live...he spent last summer indoors and I spend my time avoiding the mothers who used to be my friends.

He's so lonely and I feel awful for him but he honestly just does not seem to understand.

Despite all this he's such a polite kid, not cheeky and wouldn't dream of even walking on someone elses property let along trashing it...I think most parents think he's wierd and aren't keen to have their kids around him

that would be let alone, not let along...but I did well for such an essay (sad smile)