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Original poster

what is maintenance supposed to cover?

30 replies

whitetulips · 02/01/2011 17:51

I get the amount the CSA says is correct from my ex.
I work full time, claim wtc and ctc, and have the money from him.
There is enough, but never really any left.
Am I reasonable to approach him about contributing towards the children's passports, which have expired? I know what his response will be, but I thought I would ask here first.
After all, he may want to use the passports over the next 5 years!
TIA

OP posts:
corlan · 02/01/2011 18:07

I wouldn't feel bad about asking for help with this. It's a really expensive extra which is obviously for the benefit of your children.

He can only say 'No'( which I guess is what you're expecting) but then let's hope he never needs to ask you if he can use them!!

hairyfairylights · 02/01/2011 18:31

If the csa has made a judgement you can't expect more. No harm in asking though.

hairyfairylights · 02/01/2011 18:31

If the csa has made a judgement you can't expect more. No harm in asking though.

hairyfairylights · 02/01/2011 18:31

If the csa has made a judgement you can't expect more. No harm in asking though.

gettingeasier · 02/01/2011 18:36

CSA calculations are the minimum required payment if he can afford to help out with the passports he should do so.

ChasingSquirrels · 02/01/2011 18:40

as other say - no harm in asking.
I wonder what the legal position would be if he wanted to use them when you have brought them.

atswimtwolengths · 02/01/2011 18:54

There are so many occasions where there are unexpected costs. I actually think maintenance is very unfair in that way - some unexpected child-related bill can be enough to floor you.

If you have two children, why not ask whether he will pay for one passport?

Original poster
whitetulips · 02/01/2011 19:56

I am going to ask, but he thinks I am
a) money grabbing,
b) rolling in it thanks to his maintenance, so I am not that hopeful.
We don't have a judgement from the csa, we just used the calculator on the website.
He has told both children that he 'may' think about taking a job abroad, which probably means he is actively seeking to go abroad again, so I am sure he would need the children to have passports so that they can go and see him.
Thanks for your opinions though, I don't think it is an unreasonable question, but he makes me think everything I do is outrageous!

OP posts:
mamas12 · 02/01/2011 23:22

So you're saying that your dcs may need passports to visit him?
If so then I would wait until that day arrives and you can then propose half each then.

oldraver · 03/01/2011 00:58

The CSA amounts are supposed to be the minimum contribution. IRL your lucky if you get more

gillybean2 · 03/01/2011 11:11

CSA calculation is supposed to keep the children in the level of lifestyle they could have expected had you stayed together. If that level doesn't include passports and foreign holidays then there won't be money for those things.

However there is nothing to stop you asking for help towards an additional cost (like school trips). Is there some reason you need the passports done now, or is it just because they have run out? If the latter maybe put it to him and say you can't renew until you have saved up enough and given he is looking at moving abroad the dc will need passports to visit him. Just be aware that he may go ahead and renew them without telling you and hang on to them though...

How many overnights reduction does he get for having the children? If he doesn't have them overnight his payment is higher as assumed you are responsible for all everyday costs. If he has them several overnights a week then he pays less because he is deemed to have associated costs. So if he has 3 overnights a week that may be something you can point out to him in your attempt to get him to help pay.

Also he may use moving abroad as a reason to cut his payments. CSA allow for a reduction if there are sizeable costs involved (airfares, considerable distance/mileage etc) in maintaining contact. So he could ask for a variation on that basis (though you'd have to go through the CSA and have them agree it for that to happen).

HappyMummyOfOne · 03/01/2011 16:05

Depends on his earnings I would say. If you take the CSA amount, add that same amount yourself from your earnings plus you will get the CTC and CB (which is meant for the child/children) then if that truly doesnt cover the monthly expense of the children then work out the difference and split it on big things.

However children are not that expensive and the benefits alone should cover the bulk of the cost.

corlan · 03/01/2011 18:00

'However children are not that expensive'

Are you having a laugh?

WhyHavePets · 03/01/2011 18:05

LMAO, yes children are sooo cheap to keep Hmm

sorry op, nothing helpful to add,just had to at that one Grin

emmakneesupmotherbrown · 03/01/2011 18:11

Its worth asking - as somes said he can only say 'no' but if he's looking to work and live overseas and wants to actually SEE his children its in his better interests to cover some of the costs..

oh and children aren't expensive?

I wish some bugger had told me that sooner, I've clearly been getting it wrong for over a decade...Grin

Dropdeadfred · 03/01/2011 18:16

why would they need passports at this momnet in time?
why not wait to buy them if you can afford a holiday in future? or get him to pay for them if he ever does go abroad?

Original poster
whitetulips · 03/01/2011 19:00

I am hoping to take them away this year,but obviously it is an extra expense to budget for.
I just think that a major cost like that, that he is likely to benefit from too, (surely he may want to take them away at some point in the future?)should be shared.
I think that is a reasonable pov, but he does not seem to have any reason left in him whatsoever.
He went through a phase when he refused to buy ds a new inner tube for his bike, because he though his maintenance should cover everything.
The only reason I had not got one was because I didn't know which one, and ds is with exh every weekend, so he had more chance to take him to a bike shop!

OP posts:
yellowspots · 03/01/2011 19:11

If you work FT and get CTC and maintenance on top, you ought to be looking at your budgeting skills if you cannot manage the cost of a couple of passports tbh. You're expected to budget for expenses like these while taking your maintenance into account, so I doubt you'd be entitled to any more from your ExP.

It's something I could afford for my children even when I was on benefits, and I never got any maintenance at all! You could have a look at the moneysavingexpert site for tips on how to do that, they have guides on reducing utility and shopping bills.

whiteandnerdy · 03/01/2011 23:46

whitetulips my experience as being a NRP who pays maintenance through the CSA, your Ex maybe unreasonable but being a NRP it does sometimes feel with Tax credits, child benifits, and having to deal with the CSA that as soon as these agencies learn your the NRP they put their fingers in their ears and go "La-La-La not listening to you", hey but I'm still a responsible parent to my DCs too, "La-La-La we're still not listening."

And so its sometimes red rag to a bull, when you hear your ExP saying, "can we share the cost of this because your their parent too." I'm not saying it's always right but personally I do get the urge to let them know what it feels like when people put their fingers in their ears and go "La-La-La not listening."

My thoughts on this are their's no real rights or wrongs, just peoples feelings and perceptions.

lowercase · 04/01/2011 14:29

as it directly benefits the children, and is not really 'maintenance' i would ask / expect a contribution.

ex paid for DDs renewal last year, i got the photo and forms together.

ladydeedy · 04/01/2011 18:00

On the "children are not that expensive" line - my DH and I were constantly being moaned at by his ex at how she could not afford to support two children on her salary, child benefit and the £200 a month he was paying in child maintenance per child (i.e. another £400 per month). Dont forget the mother is also to contribute to the maintenance of the child and given that his ex earns the same that would be another £200 per child, if I reckon rightly.

One of them now lives with us. I can honestly say that it does not cost £400 a month to keep him.

We have always taken them on holidays abroad and have stuff for them at our house (including extra sports equipment) but he has not paid for other "extras". I think that's fair.

gillybean2 · 04/01/2011 19:08

Ladydeedy - It's not £200 per child. The calculation is 15% for one child and 20% for two. So a second child doesn't cost double (in reality there are handed down toys, clothes, uniform, shared items like dvds BOGOF deals to be had.

The main cost for me is not an actual cost. I have a 2 bedroom house. There is only ds and me here. If I was on my own I could make do with a smaller house/flat or perhaps I could rent out my second room to a lodger. Because my house is larger am in a bigger council tax band, heating etc is more.

If your house was already big enough to accomodate an additional child in your family then you wont necessarily 'notice' the extra costs re needing additional room, heating etc. You may not consider the additional electric costs of hairdriers, mobile phones and electrical games, water heating for showers/bath and so on as costs of keeping that child. It just melds into your homes running costs. However I as a lone parent on income support couldn't afford to heat more than one room in my home and my ds and I slept in the same room when he was small as a result and would share a bath to reduce electric costs.

That aside, the calculation is not based on the penny by penny cost of raising that child. It's designed to keep that child in the lifestyle they could of expected had the parents remained together. A more affluent family would perhaps have a dishwasher for example. Not a direct cost of having a child, but something you can afford if you earn more. Or buy drinks and snacks while out on a trip rather than taking your own packed lunch to keep costs down.

And the costs will get higher as they get older - latest clothes, cinema, driving lessons. Again a more affluent parent may be able to afford lessons and a car with insurance for their child. I will struggle to get my ds insured on my own vehicle and it'll be me giving him those driving lessons when the time comes.

ladydeedy · 05/01/2011 15:49

I understand your view point. Our circumstances are lucky in that we dont have any other children but had bought a 3 bed house so as to be able to accommodate the two stepchildren for their visits and holidays with us. Thank goodness they are both boys so we have less electricity costs (in terms of hairdriers etc!) than it must be when you have a teenage girl Smile
Good luck in any case.

Maelstrom · 05/01/2011 21:56

I always find it fascinating when non resident parents think they are very generous by paying the absolute minimum the CSA requests from them.

Perhaps because I would be free to disappear and go back to my life as a single woman for the price of a good bottle of wine a week. Unfortunately, I care to much about DS to leave him in his dad's doorstep and wave bye bye.

I would ask him to pay for them, if he says no... well, you have not lost nothing, have you?

Maelstrom · 05/01/2011 22:00

...and tbh, if it were not because the good old state decided to protect us resident parents on low incomes by creating the blessed TC, DS and I would be homeless starving to death since as early as 3 months after the split.

Paying for holidays? my arse... sometimes it is about basic survival.