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Comments please on this letter to XP

47 replies

OptimistS · 17/11/2010 22:37

Hi all. Just after some objective opinions before I send this letter. So I don't get accused of AIBU by stealth and so you can judge for yourselves whether I'm over- or under-reacting, here's lots of some background information:

Left DP when DTs were 4 months old due to domestic abuse. DC will be 4 years old in 2 months.

Last weekend there was an incident that I heard but did not see (I was in the adjoining room). My DS was clearly messing about trying to kick his dad, which I wouldn't expect his dad to tolerate as I wouldn't either. However, after two warnings to stop, I then heard a soft thud and my DS came running to me really really upset. I asked his dad what had happened as DS was too upset to talk, and XP said DS was trying to kick him and as XP tried to stop him DS fell over and hurt himself. It sounds very believable but that's not how it sounded to me. However, as I didn't see it and DS wasn't talking, I had no choice but to let it go at the time. The next day, however, DS told me that "daddy kicked me and it really hurt". I asked DS if it as an accident or on purpose and he said "on purpose". I told DS that I would tell daddy off because it was very naughty for adults to hurt children on purpose. I am very pleased that he has taken this on board because he has told his childminder about the incident in a way that makes me confident that he understands that violence is unacceptable and he doesn't have to tolerate it, but that's an aside... Back to the issue, this is the third incident I have heard but not seen that hasn't felt quite 'right' if that makes sense.

Additional info: XP has four children from other relationships that he doesn't see and has never paid any maintenance for. Incidentally, I have a strong relationship with all of them.

Anyway, now you've waded through all that, here's the letter:

Dear XP,

I have several concerns about your visits to X and X. As previous discussions have not resolved anything, I am hoping that this letter will explain in clear terms what I expect.

When we first separated, I made it very clear that you were welcome to see X and X as often as you wanted. Despite this, you have chosen to limit your visits to four hours once a week on a weekend. That is very much your choice and not due to any obstruction on my part.

Twelve months ago, I strongly suggested to you that you needed to make more effort with X and X and take them out to places by yourself. I told you that I felt that as long as your visits were always in my presence, you would never develop a meaningful relationship with them on your own terms. You have taken them to the park by yourself seven times in this time period. All other trips out have been at my instigation and with me involved. This has led me to believe that you have no real interest in having anything other than a superficial relationship with your children. The fact that you have three other children who you have no contact with whatsoever only reinforces this view. While the relationship continues at this level, I see no purpose in you coming down every week. If you are happy with things as they are, then once a fortnight or once every three weeks is adequate.

If you wish to see X and X more often than once every few weeks, I expect you to make more effort when you visit. If money/weather does not permit an outing, I expect you to engage in an activity with them in the house. This will not include watching TV, which is not interactive in anyway and does nothing to develop your relationship with them. Please do not bother to come down when you are very tired or hungover as spending the afternoon nearly falling asleep on the sofa simply sends X and X the message that they are not particularly important to you.

As I have no choice but to work full-time (partly because you have never paid any maintenance), you need to accept that my weekends are special to me. In the past there have been a few occasions (less than two per year) where I have cancelled your visits because I have been away. As I feel that with things as they are currently, X and X will get more out of coming away with me than they will staying at home to have a visit from you, there will be more occasions where we go away for the weekend in future. I will always give you advance notice and we can rearrange another visit on a different day/time if you choose. If I become convinced that you are making more of an effort with X and X and that your visits are very special to them, I will make more effort to avoid activities that require me to be away on Sundays.

As you stormed out the door the last time we discussed this, I will reiterate here that failing to turn up for visits with no prior notice is unacceptable. If you wish to cancel or rearrange a visit, that is absolutely fine, but I expect to be informed beforehand. I will consider anything else to be deeply disrespectful towards our children.

You must also accept that as visits are taking place in MY home, I can decide who is and who isn't welcome in my home at any given time. It is unreasonable for you to expect me to 'ban' other people from my home simply because you are there. You were given the opportunity to take X and X out so that they weren't distracted by other people being around, but you chose not to do this.

When we separated the social worker called in by the police advised me not to let you have contact, but I defended you and said that you were no risk to X and X as you had never been violent with children (except for X, when she was 17, which I then felt were due to extenuating circumstances). However, since then there have been a couple of incidents with X, including one on Christmas Day 2008 when she was 7 where you pushed her so hard she fell off her chair, and another last year where you pulled her hair allegedly in jest but so hard you made her cry! Then there was the incident with X, at the age of 10, at X and X's Naming Ceremony, where you kicked her so hard on the leg you grazed her skin and left a large bruise. There is also the time you attacked X earlier this year, when he was 16. To me, all of these incidents demonstrate that you are prepared to get physically rough with children. Unfortunately, after the incident last Sunday (which is not the first occasion where I have felt you have been 'heavy handed') I feel there is now enough room for doubt for X and X?s safety while in your care that I am no longer happy for you to take our children out by yourself.

If I feel that things are improving significantly, I will reassess the situation. I would love you to have a special relationship with X and X. However, their emotional and physical wellbeing comes before your feelings, and therefore the onus is on you to demonstrate that things have got better, not for me to give you a chance to prove it.

If I see no obvious improvement, I will have no choice but to stop visits in their current form, though I will never stop contact completely unless there are exceptional circumstances. However, unless you are prepared to make more effort, I am no longer prepared to give up half of my weekend and the use of my home facilitating these visits. You can either visit less often, or you can find a contact centre, or you can make your visits worthwhile and spend time properly engaging with your children. The choice is yours.

Yours sincerely
OptimistS

So, what do you think? TIA.

OP posts:
OptimistS · 18/11/2010 12:10

cestlavie, the bit you quoted was not about my child, nor did I see it actually happen, but that's irrelevant really as I completely agree with you.

I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to answer this thread thoughtfully. It's been interesting for me. You see, my initial reaction was to just stop contact completely and then I thought I was over-reacting as I hadn't actually seen XP kick DS and kids can misunderstand, etc. Then, as I wrote the letter and tried to be reasonable but firm, I realised that there were all these other incidents that had happened with other children, and while none of them were witnessed, there's a definite pattern. Even without proof, there is a undeniable history of violence towards women and children, and if past behaviour is generally considered an indication of future behaviour, then it's a no brainer really, isn't it!

I'm sad, but I've tried my best and it wasn't good enough - or more to the point, XP wasn't. As you all say, if I let this slide, I am basically giving XP carte blanche to behave in any way he likes and once he's really hurt one of the children, it's too late.

THank you for all encouraging me to go with my instincts rather than my rationalised version of events. Needless to say, the letter will now go along the lines of:

Dear XP,

I have had growing concerns about your relationship with X and X for some time. The incident on Sunday has brought this to a head. I no longer feel that X and X are safe in your presence, and as a result of this I will no longer permit unsupervised contact.

I have no wish to prevent you from having a relationship with our children. However, I am no longer prepared to give my house and time to facilitate this. I suggest you find a neutral third party whom we both agree on, or a contact centre, where you can see X and X.

If you feel I am being unfair and you wish to discuss things further, I am prepared to do this. However, I will only do this in neutral premises with a professional mediator, and I will have no hesitation in taking matters to court if I feel my concerns are not being addressed adequately by you or the mediator.

Yours sincerely,
OptimistS

OP posts:
mamas12 · 18/11/2010 12:27

Wow what a great difference. That one shows you mean business and that's that.
Well done for protecting your dcs they will thank you for it in the end.

Do not engage unecessarily with the ex from now on, ignore calls and only answer by email if you have to.

OptimistS · 18/11/2010 12:40

Oh and thanks everyone. This is a support forum at its best, giving someone (me) that extra bit of perspective needed to see a situation as it truly is. Smile

OP posts:
CandlestickMaker · 18/11/2010 13:49

Much better Smile

Echo mamas - try to only have contact in writing/email if possible, it's much better to have it all on record.

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/11/2010 14:08

Optimists, that letter is so much better. It is short and straight to the point. Better than that, it shows you taking control of your and your DCs lives. Congratulations[:)].

Snorbs · 18/11/2010 14:16

Top work on the letter. It's very clear and to the point. Well done!

dontdisstheteens · 18/11/2010 14:25

The nest of vipers at it's best. The letter is much clearer. Consider you all, especially op, in receipt of a manly pat on the back. < xxx >

cestlavielife · 18/11/2010 14:33

brill - well done.

but do please take out "If you feel I am being unfair and ...."

doenst matter what he feels. not oyur problem.

and just put

"If you wish to discuss things further....mediator

Asteria · 18/11/2010 14:59

The second letter is much better - clear and straight to the point. Agree with Cestlavielife - don't put ideas of how he might feel into it - it makes it sound like an apology and you should not feel apologetic at all. I have a DS from a similar situation and have only had the courage to allow one visit in 8 years.

Well done - and good luck.

SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 18/11/2010 15:36

Brilliant, well done!

OptimistS · 18/11/2010 16:29

Ok. It's done and in the post before I can change my mind. I'll let you all know what happens next. Thanks again.

OP posts:
SuePurblybiltByElves · 18/11/2010 18:27

Good Smile. Hope it starts to sort things out.

CarGirl · 18/11/2010 18:32

That 2nd letter was fantastic.

gillybean2 · 18/11/2010 18:40

Realise it's in the post now, and hopefully you took out the last part already because...

You don't need to go to court to stop him seeing the dc. He would have to take you to court to have contact/more contact than you are allowing.

ginodacampoismydh · 18/11/2010 18:50

I think its too much detail and I I I, not being critical. But think you can get your message across with less words.

can i reply later with some ideas?

Tanga · 18/11/2010 20:30

Came to this a bit late and echo the brilliant comments of all the other posters and the second letter is great. I just wanted to add - keep the first letter for yourself. It seemed to clarify a lot of the issues for you and it might be useful to look back on.

elastamum · 18/11/2010 20:38

Well done! hope it works for you Smile

ginodacampoismydh · 18/11/2010 20:45

ah well done, good letter. I had come back with some ideas, then noticed new letter. Smile

kingbeat23 · 18/11/2010 20:58

I read the first letter thinking it was too soft and having read the 2nd think that it is better, but tbh, i think that the place of a third party agreeable to both parties is going to be difficult to find.

i hope it's not. Start looking for a contact centre now.

good luck

here

theredhen · 18/11/2010 21:27

Although the letter is very well written, I think it just comes across as a tirade of critisism and a character assasination of him.

I think it will simply serve to antagonise him.

You actually have no right to "expect" anything from him. He has a choice in how he deals with things and his relationships with his children and with you. You have a right to accept that or not.

I feel for you and completely understand where you are coming from but I don't think sending this letter is the key to solving the problems.

theredhen · 18/11/2010 21:28

Sorry, OP, just seen you have already sent an amended letter. My fault for not reading the whole thread. Blush

OptimistS · 22/11/2010 10:42

Just an update. XP has obviously received letter as he gone around all the local pubs telling anyone who will listen what an evil (etc, etc) I am. I don't give a monkey's about this. He has also been very aggressive (not physically) to one of my friends, which does infuriate me, but it's down to her to press charges against him if she wishes - I'm not responsible for his behaviour or for telling her how to react to it. I, however, have heard nothing whatsoever from him.

He has let it slip to a mutual friend that he intends to see a solicitor, but to be honest I can't see him doing it. I think it's probably all talk. Besides which, although the vast majority of his violent episodes are not documented with the police, some are, so I can't see a court giving him anything other than what I'm already offering, which is contact as often as he likes but supervised at a contact centre.

OP posts:
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