Do I have to let ex see his son on Christmas Day?

[Marissa1984]

I am on maternity leave but my exh is a chef working long shifts and with only one guaranteed day off each week - Saturday. I am keeping contact via text messages only and I agreed to decide on a pick up and drop off time at a neutral location as of next week and have given him a time slot for this saturday, but I pointed out we needed to make arrangements for Christmas.

He says Christmas Day (also his birthday) is his only day off and he wants to see our ds then, however as I was so looking forward to the 3 of us spending it as a family which now won't be happening I am reluctant to allow him this as I am finding his visits very upsetting as he only left 6 weeks ago when ds was just 4 weeks old and I don't want my day ruined by seeing him, and I don't want ds to pick up on my emotions and end up having his day ruined too. I know he is too young to realise what Christmas is but his first Christmas means a lot to me.

When I told him I had already said that Christmas day was a no no he got funny with me then involved his mother as he claimed I had told her he could see ds Christmas day, and I had explained to him that I had wanted to if we were getting back together, but not now as we're not. I explained his behaviour over the past 6 months to his mother and she backed off saying she will make him take responsibility and support both of us (ner ner!!!)

I have arranged for me and ds to stay with my mum from Christmas Eve until Boxing Day, and she has made it very clear my exh is not welcome, as have all of my family. We all live in the same town so it's not like we're far away, but I can't even contemplate seeing my exh's face over Christmas and there is not one person in my family who wants to answer the door to him either.

I know he'll think I'm doing this to hurt him but, even though I hope it might be a kick up the backside for him to make him realise what he's done, I'm not doing this to punish him. Every day I get to see my ds grow up whilst my exh misses out is hopefully enough punishment and caused totally by himself for leaving us.

Should I stick to my guns and risk upsetting my exh as his mother isn't pushing me to let him have his way, or should I give in just in case he tries to use it against me saying I'm stopping him from seeing his ds (especially as Christmas day falls on a Saturday)?

[Marissa1984]

mathanxiety that first link brought me to tears as there were several things which I can relate to. And i fact one of my exh's sisters even described him as a narcissist. He calls me a good mum when he's in a good mood but when he's not he says I'm a bad mum, not that he has anything to back that up with. He has issues with money, always has done. Trying to reach an agreement as to how much he could afford to contribute towards our rent and bills has always been a nightmare, even when we come to an agreement he fail to pay up and makes excuses as to why he can't, even just doesn't pay and waits for me to remind him (I presumed this was in the hope that I would forget about it!).

He has always started arguments about the cleanliness and tidiness of our home, to the point where my own mum has come to visit me and done housework for me saying she wanted to prevent him from having a go at me, and this was going on before I was pregnant. We were both working full time and he decided that as I am a woman it is my job to do all the housework, to which I told him on many occasions that if that was what he wanted then he should bring in all the money and I should quit work! I am quite happy to do it all myself if I am not working as well, and he rarely lifted a finger to help around the house, before during and after pregnancy. He would argue with me when I was earning less than him that I wasn't bringing in enough money, yet when I was earning more than him he complained about that, even saying that once ds was born I should go back to work and let him be a house husband!

Fortunately, unlike the woman in your link, I have loving and supportive parents who are very good to me and my in-laws have also been very supportive and good to me. I didn't always get on with the m-i-l, didn't actually know why she disliked me, I believe it may have been down to him telling lies about me and turning everything round to make me out to be in the wrong when it was actually him, and I believe she now realises this as there is no animosity between us any more.

Unfortunately the second link didn't work.

whyhavepets I have made several subsequent posts

[mathanxiety]

'Throughout my pregnancy he complained of people coming up to me fussing over me as he was jealous of the attention I was getting, and I tried to involve him by having him go to my scans, however he used excuses to get out of my parent education class and in the end I told him I had invited him so that he would be involved and said if he didn't want to go to just say so instead of making up excuses. He told me he thought he would get bored!'

WhyHavePats -- this is from a subsequent post.

Sorry about the second link -- another try

[SMummyS]

Without sounding harsh if he was like this before you was pregnant why did you decide to have a child with him?? Surely you would know that no matter what happened with you two he would have equal parental rights with the child...

As a pp has said he's not asking for a 50/50 split he is asking for one day a week. If he did take you to court he would be granted that and prop more as your DS gets a bit older.

It seems to me that he's your son, you make all the decisions and your ex can jump!! It would appear to the courts if it got that far that you are being obstructive. He has given you 8 weeks notice of his only day of at Xmas time. That is adequate time to arrange him to have his DS for even a couple of hours!!

Why is it always about how the mother feels and never that the dad may actually miss his child!!!

[Marissa1984]

SMummyS that's a bit like asking a battered wife why she would stay with/go back to a violent husband though really, isn't it? The answer is I don't really know, I guess I thought he might change, and his behaviour had drastically improved over the years but went downhill during my pregnancy. For the first 4 months of my pregnancy and a long period before that he seemed happy and relatively calm, certainly a lot better than in the past. At the end of the day I loved him warts and all, he may not be a nice person but they say you can't help who you fall in love with.

How am I making all the decisions? I have agreed to everything he wants, he's had all the visits he wants, my issue over Christmas Day is the only thing I felt strongly enough about to put my foot down, and as I said earlier I have now contacted him with regards to him seeing ds for an hr or so on Christmas Day anyway.

I think it's not always about how the mother feels, it's more about how the person left with the child feels, whether that is the mother or the father, is it not?

And if he was worried about missing out then why did he leave when ds was only 4 weeks old? Essentially it appears he left as he can't handle responsibility and doesn't wan't to grow up, and, as mathanxiety has mentioned narcissism, it does appear that he is a narcissist.

Perhaps I should also mention that on one occasion he had 2 days off work and spent one day sitting in coffee shops and pubs all day then went round a friend's, got drunk and returned in the early hours of the morning, then had to disappear again the next day for several hours to go drinking again. Then when having a week off work to spend time as a family he ended up behaving the same, using the time as an opportunity to see all his friends and go drinking till the early hours and often not coming home.

Doesn't seem to me like he's really that bothered about spending time with ds. It feels like I'm doing all the hard work and he thinks by seeing ds occasionally that makes him a good dad. I'm concerned he will get bored of visiting and eventually stop coming as it seems we get in the way of his lifestyle. He plays the sensible responsible parent when he has a visit yet spends the rest of his time drinking till he passes out pretty much every day, he's even started drinking during lunch breaks and between split shifts now. By leaving us it enables him to carry out this lifestyle even more so than when he was with us, as he doesn't have anyone waiting for him to get home or asking him not to behave like this. So really he's having his cake and eating it right?

[mathanxiety]

That is the whole issue as far as I'm concerned, Marissa, and for this kind of question in general ('it's ... never that the dad may actually miss his children') -- if you care about your baby, why pack your things and leave when the baby is a month old? Why refuse to pay for the things the baby needs? It seems to me there's a lot of take and no give here by this man.

Marissa, I hope you'll have a good Christmas and hope his mum will talk him into accepting your reasonable invitation for a few hours. She seems to be a reasonable person and I would be inclined to rope her into trying to talk to him.

The drinking is a serious problem from your description, and I hope the baby will not be in a car with him, ever. If he's descending into alcoholism then it's possible he will never have any sort of good relationship with his son -- his loss, and very sad for the baby.

[racetobed]

Phipps "You have no more rights than your ex." Wtf?

We are talking about a 10 week old baby, who could well be exclusively breastfed.

The mother has plenty more rights than the father when the child is so young imo. Given that the baby will only be around 18 weeks on Xmas Day, the mother still has more rights then.

I'm so tired of women championing father's rights above the well being of tiny babies who are only weeks out of the mother's womb. I would understand if we were talking about a 2 year old who had a strong attachment to her father, but we're not.

[mathanxiety]

Hear hear Racetobed. Tis baloney.

[MsHighwater]

racetobed and mathanxieyt, imo you are both wrong. The child has rights and it is this that might mean things are more likely to go in the mother's favour in a situation like this, especially if the child is exclusively breastfed.

That apart, though, the starting point should be that the child has a right to a relationship with both parents unless there are very good reasons for it to be otherwise. It is up to all the adults around the child to respect and facilitate that.

[mathanxiety]

IMO there are very good reasons to believe that a relationship with this [particular man would really screw the child up for a long time. He's an alcoholic, or heading there fast, with a high level of hostility towards the baby's mother and is probably very jealous of the baby. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for respectful communication from this man with a view to facilitating good relationships.

[MsHighwater]

mathanxiety, a court might see things similarly or it might not. Either way, unlike you, the court would at least listen to all the facts and both sides of the story before reaching a conclusion, especially when the repercussions could be lifelong for the child.

[nappyaddict]

If him coming to your mums isn't an option could he take DS to his for an hour or two?

[justonemorethen]

Can I add that this Christmas will be relevant next Christmas too.
Whatever you do this year will be next's years issue so consider a longer term plan.

I'd suggest letting him come for an hour just to get it over with.Then you can at least say you've done your bit and if it doesn't work that's his problem.If it's his birthday and day off and he likes a drink he'd surely be happy to leave it at that and go off with his mates?

Not easy but usually the easy option isn't the best way to do anything is it.