No work for a year in London

[Winterlit]

I’ve name-changed for this post.

My husband and I have found ourselves without work for a year while raising two kids in London. We’ve had a string of unpredictable events that depleted our savings in the 3 years before. So, we only had savings for 3 months plus I had made some small investments that I could liquidate. Since then we’ve used credit cards and taken out 2 loans.

We thought it may take us 6 months at the most to find work! We work in tech as freelance contractors (for over 15 years) and all contract work has dried up. A couple of small freelance jobs almost went through but got cancelled last minute. We’re very proactive people and as such have applied to permanent jobs as well as working on a tech product for which we are applying for investment for.

We have had so many contract jobs, permanent jobs and investment rejections - in the hundreds! - over the last 12 months. Moving to a cheaper city is a last resort option I’ve thought about but changing the kids schools + home is not something I want to do. Especially as one of them is in secondary.

I have this feeling that perhaps we’re too experienced to be hired?! Perhaps most of the tech hiring is happening at junior levels. I say this as we know many others in their mid 40s also out of work for 6 months + in London.

I’m not sure why I am posting! Maybe to hear a hopeful story or ideas on how to get out of this mini crisis for our little family.

As a side I had a fairly emotionally and possibly physically traumatic childhood and have been working / self-sufficient since I was 16. My partner has also been working since a young age. We worked many jobs to pay our way through uni. We got together young and supported each other a lot in our careers.

I feel bad complaining as we have our health, our two lovely children and live in a fairly stable country. Apart from the recent riots! We’re both UK born ethnic minorities so it’s close to home. Anyway, that’s a digressions. Essentially, financially this last year has been a lot!

We’ve cut back on many expenses and are living quite frugally with a small mortgage on our tiny London flat. Our biggest expenses are school fees and we’ve given ourselves another academic year to see if we need to change to state school.

My husband and I feel even stronger as a unit through all of this which has taken me by surprise as it’s quite a testing time. We’ve had some issues in the past and had couples therapy a while back which was very helpful. We’ve also always actively worked on our relationship since the beginning which I feel is helping us now.

A bit of long winey post but I guess I am so ready for some tailwind! 🤞 🍀

You can't carry on like that. If you can't get burseries change to state school. State school in London aren't bad. Private school is a luxury you can't afford with no incomes.

Many people in good wellpaid contract jobs have become unemployed in recent years. The market is changing.
You only have to fight for permanent employment or look around for others jobs (for the most part less attractive terms).
Lots of our friends have realized the same.

Hmmm yes, unless they are getting into huge debt, it sounds like OP is mistaken on having no savings - money earned from investments counts as savings income!

@TookTheBook I did make money on my investments but I have now sold them to use the money.

You are doing a great job in managing all of these. It’ll just be a matter of time. Good luck for your project to get investment.

If you're an experienced PM, apply outside of tech too. Lots of places (finance etc) are looking for good PMs. Your skills are transferable. Use that.

In the meantime, sign up with temp agencies. You might only get a day here and there, or a couple of months cover, or entry level stuff but they lead to connections.

@CreateUserNames thank you! I almost cried when the investor who we’ve met a couple of times now told us how impressive our work experience is. We have both been feeling ver worthless so it was reassuring to hear it’s not us but the crazy job market that put us here.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos are there any agencies you recommend? I haven’t used any before.

UC will expect you both to take jobs, and not wait for something in your preferred sector.

Good job on learning AI as this is exactly the type of hot skill I was referencing. Truly it sounds like time alone assuming you’re open to perm as well and to lower salaries. The London FS benchmark for an experienced developer is about 90-100K at the moment, although more if you’re in a niche spot like electronic or algo trading, data science or AI. I’ve hired high 100s of technologists and the good news is that there’s no such thing as too experienced. I suspect that’s code for something else like too expensive or didn’t react well to the “what else” questions, I.e. when they keep questioning you beyond what you know to see how you cope with uncertainty. It’s important to come across as humble and willing to seek feedback at that point.

Re start up idea, well done! Do note that VCs often don’t pay salaries when they invest so make sure your position on salary is known, and don’t share IP until they’re committed!

I'm not in London, quite far outside, but always had luck with the smaller, independent ones rather than the big ones.

@Savoury he is asking for £90k atm for permanent jobs which is significantly lower than before. I think it’s just a lot of people applying for these jobs and it’s been bad luck he didn’t make the final cut. His last round of interviews the first technical interview went great. Unfortunately the second round they had someone show up late and then he wasn’t engaged as he was working while my husband was talking through his solutions. He was also referred to this particular job by an ex colleague who mentioned that their company have a lot of work and not many developers. So I think the guy interviewing him was overworked perhaps.

Re investors - I could write a book about these meetings!!! Not something I recommend if you’re not thick skinned. It is fairly standard to pay yourself a salary from the investment - it will be the smallest one in the team for a while though. Doing the maths we should be able to swing it as both my husband and I would take a salary each.

So you’ve committed to paying the school fees for another year? I know the schools want a term in advance.

Close friend in this sector has been out of work for 1.5 years. He’s planning on selling in London and moving, whereas just before he was thinking of early retirement. It’s a tough sector at the moment. Good luck with the AI project.

There’s a lot of agism in tech.
Are you applying for public sector roles? Much lower pay but much less age discrimination in my experience.

www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi?SID=b3duZXJ0eXBlPWZhaXImY29udGV4dGlkPTkxNDg2NDk5JnBhZ2VjbGFzcz1TZWFyY2gmcGFnZWFjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2hjb250ZXh0Jm93bmVyPTUwNzAwMDAmcmVxc2lnPTE3MjMzNTg5MTMtZGNlMTgxMzNkMWY2OTBjNGNjMjRlMThkMWZjYThiMGUxODM3NWIzMQ==

@OlympicGoldfish selling our flat and moving somewhere cheaper is definitely an option we would consider too.

I negotiated a decent discount on one of the school fees and paid them a year in advance. I sold some furniture and a small investment that was supposed to be part of our retirement to pay for it. The other fees we also paid a term for now out of this same pot of money.

We then took another small loan this month which will give us three months living expenses. Our mortgage is ridiculously low for London as we paid a fair amount into it and I’m always so paranoid about money I was insistent on not getting a bigger place to overstretching ourselves - thank goodness!

@kistanbul I had a feeling this could be the case. My husbands interviews have all been with people in their late 20s and early 30s - feels kind of strange as he is approaching 50.

Thanks for sharing - I haven’t applied to any public sector jobs - will take a look.

its an amazing opportunity to shape the country’s response to AI. Ther are a few jobs in that area becaus it’s still so new.

Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)Senior Software Engineer (AI Safety Institute)

@kistanbul thank you :)

Speak to the school about all this and ask about applying for bursary places.

Would definitely encourage you to look at public sector roles. They won’t pay the same as private sector but have lots of other advantages.

@HorizontalNotVertical I will check with my eldest school - they are very active on the bursary fund. My eldest is also on a scholarship which gives some discount which helps. It’s only 10% but I could ask if they could increase the discount a bit.

Thank you - so much positive advice in these last few comments :)

I am not the first person to navigate this so I’m sure I can make it work. I’m always inspired by parents who migrated during the commonwealth mass immigration in the 1960s and built a great life for themselves. They also created dozens of jobs for others and contributed lots towards society and by paying tax without ever relying on benefits. It’s more my journey but it’s good to know there is some kind of social system in place in case disaster strikes.

Your whole situation is unsustainable and ahas been for a while. You can ask about funding but given the squeeze on private schools fees I would not hold out much hope. Look into state schools and give notice. One of you really needs to be earning, could your skills not work short term contracts in other sectors of pm? Are you signed up with agencies? Civil Service is a good shout as much of their IT projects use external contractors. Longer term move out of London and be prepared to commute or work remotely.

Schools are really super desperate for Computer Science teachers. Could one of you do this in the interim? It would be worth sending letters to the independent schools within commuting distance as they may not be running adverts now, but still have a gap in their staffing.

@WASZPy I thought about this too. I don’t have any teaching qualifications but can see if I can do a hybrid teaching course + work. i am aware there aren’t enough teachers in this space - I actually like teaching things but have never done it formally as a role.

Why didn't you just take any job even temping just to earn money before savings dwindled . If people need to earn money they'll flip burgers at McDonalds to get by .

Don't understand what you're looking for tbh , if there's no jobs in your chosen sector do something else .

Hospitality are crying out for staff!

Claim any UC you can it doesn’t matter if it’s not much it’s all going towards the debt.

You sounded fairly sensible until I got to the bit where you are still paying private school fees but have no jobs and are heavily in debt. I don't know how you sleep at night. You need to address your financial situation and make some hard choices.