New Secondary Schools for Richmond 4

[BayJay2]

Welcome. This is the fourth (or perhaps fifth) in a series of threads about Richmond Secondary Schools.

The discussion was originally triggered by Richmond council's publication of its Education White Paper in February 2011. It started with two parallel threads here and here.

In November 2011 the most active of the original two threads reached 1000 messages (the maximum allowed) so we continued the conversation here.

That thread filled up in May 2012, and was continued here.

It's now November 2012, and once again we're at the start of a new thread ....

You mean a Voluntary Aided community school? It would be the first as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong). Who would be the proposer? It would need to be a non-profit trust with enough funds behind it to guarantee being able to cover 10% of the capital costs of the school for the foreseeable future. Such an organisation (e.g. Achieving for Children) could just as readily set up a Free School, so there wouldn't be any need for them to break new ground unless there was significant disagreement between the council and the DfE (i.e. if they submitted it as a Free school proposal but the DfE turned it down and they wanted to try again using another route). Remember the only reason St RR was set up as a VA school was to guarantee >50% faith admissions, but that incentive wouldn't apply to a Community School.

Is that not what the portsmouth council is doing with the CoE after their free school was rejected ? I saw it posted on the previous thread.I am not sure of rules but a Council is also non profit and could be proposer and be willing to buy Land and building and fund 100 pc of costs ?

This could appeal to Councils who do not want national academies.

Heathclif: thank you for your very clear statement of the position as you see it [Wed 12-Dec-12 14:58:07].

I hope that mmptsa will respond with an equally clear statement of the position as she sees it, showing her working and assumptions at each stage. That way we may get to a meeting of minds on what the outcome of the allocation will be.

In the Portsmouth case I assume its the CofE Diocese that's the proposer, so its a VA faith school like St RR.

p.s. Here's a link to the Diocese of Portsmouth's website, which confirms its the Diocese not the council that's the proposer.

Of course the Portsmouth VA schools might choose to have fully inclusive admissions, but that doesn't make them Community Schools. When our council talks of a Community School at Egerton Road, I'm assuming they mean a non-denominational school, created in partnership with the College, rather than a faith school with open admissions.

Bayjay - interesting points. Could there not be a non faith VA or VC school ?

"Could there not be a non faith VA or VC school ?"

Well as I said in my post at 18:22, even if there could in principle I don't understand what the advantage would be over a free school.

For more background on Achieving for Children (AfT), see Item 9 on the agenda for tomorrow night's cabinet meeting. Assuming those plans move forward as intended, all of Richmond and Kingston's Education Services will be shifted into a single non-profit trust, jointly owned by the two councils. That trust will then provide services to schools etc on a commissioning basis. The schools are prepared for that because they already commission services from the council, but in future they will commission them from AfT instead.

Now, the next bit is speculation on my part, but as a non-profit trust AfT will presumably be eligible for setting up free schools. If so, they could reasonably form a partnership with the college to create one at Egerton Road. Hey presto, a free school that is as close to a Community School as you can get (in terms of the individuals involved in setting it up), without technically being a Community School.

Not sure what the relationship will be with elected councillors themselves?

I do see something positive about cooperation between the two boroughs though, and if you are right about the possibility of such a body being a free school sponsor it makes planning possible. Kingston is sending about a school's worth of pupils into Richmond secondaries so what happens with their free school will have a big impact. It does need to be managed carefully.

"Not sure what the relationship will be with elected councillors themselves?"

Elected councillors appoint the Director of AfC. The Director then appoints the next tier of staff. In the current LA model councillors appoint both the Director and the next tier of staff, so there will be some reduction in control there. (However in the initial set-up of AfC the top-tier of managers will simply move over from the LA structure, so they will come from that pool of staff that were initially appointed by members).

Councillors will subsequently hold AfC to account via its Service Level Agreements.

The judgement from the Judicial Review has now been issued and this is RISC's QC's view on it davidwolfe.org.uk/wordpress/archives/1390.

It does leave you wondering what is now going on in Gove's mind? Presumably the resulting legal inconsistency is an accommodation between his "desires"/ dogma and the interests of a powerful faith lobby?

Thanks Heathclif, will look at that.

Interesting to see Ed Milliband's speech on integration - he mentions English lessons, cutting translation services, recruitment and housing but not education and faith schools. Are all the children of the latest wave of Polish residents expected just to go to Catholic schools? Does it encourage integration to have more Muslim, Jewish and Sikh schools in a city like London where 'white British' are now a minority? It will be interesting to see how that debate takes off.

Very dissapointing from Ed. Let's hope Vince Cable can boldly go where no senior politician has gone before. The coaltion agreement on faith school inclusivity is in tatterS

Having grown up in a town of immigrants I do think that integrated education is important. As you know I respect the right of devout and cultural Catholics to have Catholic Schools but not exclusive Catholic Schools. Where I come from those Catholic Schools which served previous Catholic waves of immigration play a really important role in helping a multi cultural community co exist because they are not over subscribed and popular with the more recent waves of Muslim immigrants.

It seems most of our politicians are content to allow the waters around the faith school issue to be muddy.

The usual counterpart in towns with an undersubscribed, more ethnically mixed, family-oriented Catholic school is a predominantly white, middle class CofE school which is more socially exclusive, with other community schools fitting in around them (the worst performing often being on white working class estates).

It's still unevenly 'spreading privilege' rather than providing equal choices. Some Muslims may have been happy to attend undersubscribed Catholic schools as long as they know they have a good chance of getting in along with their friends, although new Muslim schools are being set up in those areas which may attract those minorities away. But you're unlikely to get Catholics, Anglicans or those of no faith going to new Muslim (or Sikh or Hindu schools), and the white working class (non-Catholics) stay on their estates and become even more isolated and resentful. So ultimately it may lead to more racism, social exclusion and cultural segregation and undersubscribed schools.

Full judgement published in Richmond Catholic schools judicial review is the BHA's view; it ends:

The BHA and RISC have decided not to appeal the ruling, not only because of the costs but also because any appeal would come too late to affect the Richmond schools, which are due to open in September 2013.

Full Judgement by The Honourable Mr Justice Sales:

. . 70. On the basis of these legal points, I think there is really no doubt on the facts of the case, as reviewed above, that the Council has acted lawfully in making the assessment that it does not think that a new school needs to be established in its area, and hence that no duty has arisen under section 6A. The Council?s assessment was that there was no ?need? (in a section 6A sense) for a new school to be established, but rather that it was merely desirable in its assessment of the public interest and having regard to factors relevant under sections 13 and 14 of the 1996 Act that the Diocese?s proposals to establish the two new Catholic schools should be approved and the Site made available for the implementation of those proposals.

71. The Council?s assessment of these matters cannot be impugned as irrational or in any way unlawful.

The judge clearly took the council's arguments at face value, and the council had a carefully crafted, reasonable sounding defence that was always going to be difficult to penetrate on technicalities. If he'd scratched below the surface and considered the irrationality of their forecasting, and the intent behind that irrationality (because it certainly wasn't down to incompetence) he might have come to a different conclusion. However that would have been much more difficult for RISC's lawyers prove, and quite possibly beyond the judge's remit.

So, the council have outsmarted RISC, but just because their actions have been judged to be lawful doesn't mean they were right or fair.

muminlondon2 I suppose one thing that can be said for the grim social and economic conditions that prevail where I come from is that both Catholic and non faith schools are very mixed. There are no Cof E schools and the independent Girls' school has become a Free School because of falling pupil numbers. Some of my family live on one of those working class housing estates you mention but are very familiar with the issues affecting Muslim families because the children attend the same non faith school, and are friends. Ofsted commented of the school "Those students who have been most difficult to engage in learning; most notably White British boys explained very clearly to inspectors the positive difference these changes are beginning to have on their attitudes to learning." The Schools, both Catholic and non Catholic, seem to be finding ways to address these issues. I agree the possibility of Muslim Free Schools that are effectively exclusively Muslim would be worrying especially as in my cousins' school one of the special measures imposed by Ofsted concerned the lack of knowledge and attainment of pupils in RE where non Muslim religions were concerned. However none of the new Free Schools approved for the city are faith schools. I wonder if the D of E has amongst it's opaque criteria one that seeks to ensure Faith Free Schools do not create ghettos?

Heliview I think the judge was only empowered to consider the legal arguments put before him, which revolved around whether the Council had said there was a need for a new school and therefore invoked the terms of the act. Issues around the robustness of the forecasts were not considered. What strikes me about the judgement is that the judge appears to go beyond that narrow remit and makes some subjective and even political observations. In fact the judge seems to be endorsing our views on Lords True's distinctive talent for rhetoric based on sweeping generalisations!!

Where I grew up there are now more faith secondaries than community schools. I was lucky to go to a comprehensive that was ethnically diverse but that was a long time ago and now, in poorer areas, communities do not mix.

Interesting about the independent girls' school becoming a free school. Some such schools were established hundreds of years and used to be direct grant grammar schools, but as free schools they are required to be mixed ability. So considering them on a case-by-case basis it is better that they serve a wider community as a non-faith (often smaller-scale) option than go bankrupt. I do wonder whether we have seen the 'religious' wave of free schools and will now be seeing more of the 'private schools conversion' wave. But I wouldn't support that if (1) there is any relaxation of the Schools Admissions Code that will bring back academic selection and (2) profit-making is allowed, encouraging private equity takeovers and general asset-stripping by big business.

Chris - I am not qualified to produce a forecast and would rely on the Councils professional judgement. I shall eagerly wait to see if Cllr Eady produces another version of his famous forecast spreadsheet.
The Councils forecast clearly showed 122 open spaces in 2013 in RPA and TA - and thats almost size of a new secondary school. On evidence of this years application trends, it is safe to assume that their forecast is correct, if anything there could be more spare spaces in the academies. Heathclif - you raise some valid points but no one knows what will happen and the free school with 100 places assumed in 2013, could have diverted more pupils away from the academies to the free school. But it does not mean that in absence of a free school, parents will select the automatically select academies - who have not changed enough to their satisfaction. It is equally likley that parents wil continue to go for out of borough or independent secondaries. Its not a good use of tax payers money if RPA remains 1/2 and TA 1/4 empty in Sep 2013 - something I hope their leaders start accepting the responsibility for.
Even if the judge would have reviewed the forecast, he would have not been in a position to challenge them and correctly accepted the Councils argument.

BayJay - I respect that many people on this forum are already engaged with existing and new schools and applaud their efforts. It does however feel that the community could put more pressure on the national leaders of our academies to deliver changes that meet our needs.

"I am not qualified to produce a forecast"

Having just re-read that last post it sounds more strident than I intended, so I'm rephrasing and have asked for the previous one to be withdrawn ...

A fully professional forecast would have included a risk assessment. However, at least it did include the assumptions, several of which have now proved to be false, as has been discussed in this thread in some detail.

Any moderately numerate person is capable of analysing the forecast, and its underlying assumptions, and seeing the implicit risks. Jeremy Rodell and Malcolm Eady are both highly numerate and have both pointed out the potential risks in some detail. If an independent forecast had been produced it would have described, and attempted to quantify, those risks to indicate a range of possible outcomes.