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Living overseas

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buying a holiday house in France

48 replies

cosmobrown · 02/08/2024 22:48

Basically, we are planning our retirement, and I have always dreamt of having a small house in SW France.
Is this still a possibility since Brexit?
If so, what kind of annual costs are we looking at, apart from the cost of the house I mean.

Ideally we'd like to rent it out at some point.
Any info welcome. thanks.

OP posts:
MassiveSaladEater · 02/08/2024 22:52

I am very surprised indeed that you, a Brit, are planning this.

Of course, before Brexit it was commonplace. Now, it would be a foolish thing to do.

OP, is this a serious enquiry?

cosmobrown · 02/08/2024 22:57

why is it foolish? yes I am being serious.

OP posts:
FluffMagnet · 02/08/2024 22:58

Of course you still can. But, you can only spend 6 months of the year out there, broken down to no more than 3 months in any 6 month period, unless you make formal applications. There are some good websites for British expats that would help you out. My parents have done similar to you and I think they struggle with sharing their time between the UK and France (primarily due to caring responsibilities for their mums), but are lucky enough to have wonderful French neighbours who really help them out. How much French do you speak?

cosmobrown · 02/08/2024 23:12

Thanks @FluffMagnet . My French is not quite good enough (at the moment) around A2 level, but I have time to improve this.

DO you mind me asking if your parents rent the property out at all?

OP posts:
RelocatingtoFrance · 03/08/2024 10:02

hello OP, we are in the process of doing just this, with the exception that I have a EU passport, and DH is on his way to obtaining citizenship.

what we ve found tricky is financing a purchase, with french banks being very hostile to UK buyers (even those with a good deposit and citizenship).

have you looked into this already?

OnlyFrench · 03/08/2024 10:06

Perfectly possible and it's easy enough to get a six month visa in addition to your 90/180 allowance.

Costs:

Taxe foncière
Taxe d'habitation
Rubbish collection
Gas/water/electricity/firewood
If you have a septic tank, emptying very rarely
Insurance

BlueSmurfPantMan · 03/08/2024 11:00

If you are going to rent it out then you will also need public liability insurance.

If you aren't doing to be doing the changeovers yourself then you will need to factor in the costs of employing someone to do this (plus associated laundry costs) You will need spares of everything. The garden will also need to be kept under control - the grass grows astonishingly fast in SW France.

It's pretty difficult to find reliable changeover people- especially on a Saturday which is the traditional changeover day. You will need a network of contacts to deal with emergencies such as the hot water not working, appliances breaking etc. Depending on how rural you are, something that would be easily solved in the UK (replacing a kettle for example) can become a mammoth task and you need to factor in potential lunchtime closures and the fact that nothing will be open on a Sunday afternoon.

Supermarkets are not like the UK and don't sell many things that you would expect to find here eg painkillers, basic OTC medicines. You need a pharmacy for these (see above comment re lunch/Sunday closures). Unless you are in a big city there is no "nipping out for a pint of milk". Supermarket delivery isn't really a thing.

We lived in SW France for 10 years and had a brilliant time, but it is a very, very different way of life.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/08/2024 11:26

I lived in France and England concurrently for fifteen years, left for UK permanently just before Covid (dodged a bullet there). We spent April to October in France with a small break in the middle as we could not insure our English house for absence of more than 180days.

I think what you are proposing would actually be more difficult in some ways moving outright! The costs of two properties should not be underestimated, you have double the outgoings and when we were there it was difficult to secure a no use no fee system for telecoms or utilities ( they are keen on packages). We found it more difficult to employ tradespeople for maintenance or improvements than in UK , as population density means there are just fewer people to do jobs like this; plus the taxation system means that there is -ahem- rather more reliance on untaxed labour. You don’t have access to this until you have been accepted in the local community, and that takes a while ( and fluent French, often with local variations).

Things like gardening and cleaning were very expensive, because the government subsidies for elderly people means that the prices for everyone rise to include the subsidy ( taxi the same in our area).

we never rented out our house , because we lived in it or shut it up totally in the winter. I did know a few English people who did, though, generally rather unsatisfactorily. Clearing and locking up your stuff so renters could use the house is a drag, and some damage is pretty much inevitable. Plus of course, most people want to rent your house at peak times when you want to live there (midwinter In rural France can be bleak). People who ran gites from their property did rather better, though it was hard work.

We loved it, those years were probably the best of our lives! But what enabled it was having enough money to keep everything running smoothly and to cope with emergencies, fluent French ( I still sometimes dream in French) an acceptance of differences between cultures, and plenty of wine. But basically, being able to afford everything without the need for income.

HavfrueDenizKisi · 03/08/2024 12:00

We have done this post Brexit. We're in Provence.

Not sure why pp said it's hard to get a mortgage- we had no problems - we used a broker based in the UK who found us a mortgage deal.

Yes you will be restricted with regard the 90 in 180 day rule unless you apply for a permanent visa post retirement or can source an EU passport (I have this underway and DH can get one through me luckily).

We only let family and friends use the house so don't rent out to strangers. I can imagine that is hard; finding people to maintain and prepare your place for rentals. Luckily we have a lovely French couple next door who keep an eye on things for us. But that is not a given.

Costs are exactly as @OnlyFrench said. We also keep a runaround car here. So have insurance for that and building insurance too.

Most expensive things for us so far: septic tank emptying and pool repairs and cleaning etc.

cosmobrown · 03/08/2024 12:02

really interesting to read peoples experiences, thank you for sharing.
Just to be clear, it would be a holiday home that we would visit for short breaks rather than 6 months at a time. (don't think I could stand the mosquitoes for more than 3 weeks at a time!)

We have holidayed (sp?) a lot in SW France, so know a little bit about the way of life, shops etc. and was imagining getting an agency to manage the rental side of things. Would that work?
We would not need finance, so that's one hurdle out the way at least.
And I have time to improve my french yet….

OP posts:
notnorman · 03/08/2024 12:23

Sorry I have no idea about France! But we have a house in Spain where we visit once a month. We had an English lawyer in Spain do everything for us alongside a lovely translator for the hard bits. I'm sure something like that would exist in France too x

sofasofa42 · 03/08/2024 12:25

Apologies for not reading every response but I get SO bored with the uninformed brexit shit

I very successfully live in Europe post brexit, in France like every where else there will be some kind of visa process and you will have to prove passive income . Find a few Facebook groups and have a look at the France embassy website. Don't consult the lunatics on here!

Poachedeggavocado · 03/08/2024 12:26

Coming at this from the finance side after discussing with my FA as was considering something similar. He talked me out of it, said would be far better to find a house to rent and agree a rolling annual tenancy with a local owner so we go out 3 months every year without all the sunk costs, repairs etc. All the money saved could be invested instead and the dividends pay the 3 months each year.

Avoid all the hassle of mortgages, cleaning staff, local handyman etc.

Just a thought.

RosesAndHellebores · 03/08/2024 12:35

It's more than possible but if we hadn't bought our house 20 years ago, I'm not sure I'd do it now. It helps that DH's French is fluent.

The bigger fag now we are older is the journey which has become much more expensive and the long drives are three times as tiring post 60. We tend to fly nowadays and we keep a car in France.

OnlyFrench · 03/08/2024 12:46

Looking a long way ahead, it's also important to factor in costs if you decide to resell. CGT and social charges when you sell a second home are hefty but on a reducing scale depending on length of ownership.

RelocatingtoFrance · 03/08/2024 12:49

@HavfrueDenizKisi re mortgage- i am certainly finding it difficult on the French side (very limited nb of banks lending to non residents, and reauirement for v large deposits, plus secured funds held as back up / nantissement).

On the UK side / via my broker, i ve not found any bank ready to lend to us for a property abroad - we re looking to borrow not much at all (£100k) so this may be why.

Would appreciate your insight!

HavfrueDenizKisi · 03/08/2024 13:22

@RelocatingtoFrance yes you won't find any UK banks that will lend you money to buy property abroad.

Our broker worked on finding EU mortgages for UK nationals if I remember correctly. We got a mortgage through BNP Paribas. They have a specific department that does these mortgages (for foreign nationals). Are you using a broker with this type of experience? We did this 2021/2 so not too long ago.

I'm on Mumsnet app at the moment (I'm in France) so can't PM you any specifics currently.

RelocatingtoFrance · 03/08/2024 13:55

yes, using a euro mortgage broker, but not loving the experience - i don't see the point of them repeating endlessly that brits are now at the back of the queue etc - i probably have the wrong person to deal with, she likes to emphasise how hard it s gonna be, how few deals are on the table, etc.

we re exploring a secured loan from our uk residential mortgage provider in parallel...

FunnysInLaJardin · 03/08/2024 14:03

We have just come back from SW France on holiday and we discussed this too.

The logistics would be fairly hideous and neither of us speak French well enough to buy a house there.

We decided that when we retire we will do longish term lets and so enjoy the country without the headache of property ownership.

cheeseismydownfall · 03/08/2024 14:16

Honestly, if you are only planning on short breaks I think you would be far, far better off just continuing to book holiday gites and enjoying the flexibility and total lack of the hassle that would come with owning a property, especially one that you are having to manage remotely in a language and culture you're not fully familiar with.

If you avoid the peak holiday season then I'm sure it would be cheaper overall and most definitely easier to just book short breaks. You may well be able to negotiate discounts directly with owners for extended and return visits.

Mountainclimber50 · 03/08/2024 14:24

If you are not planning on moving there permanently there is no reason to buy a house.

Gites in the SW of France are very cheap off season.

We will be retiring to our house in France. So long as you both have 30k pension income if one of you dies you should be okay to get a retirement visa.

Loads of Americans and Australians in our neighborhood in France which proves Brexit is not a huge issue so long as you have 100k in the bank and 30k retirement income individually if one of you dies. Also, always have an escape property in the UK we rented our UK house out for 6 years when we lived there previously.

Would I buy in France again? Probably not. Any regrets? Yes, but also many positives. If I were you I would rent.

I am looking forward to the adventure of living there again though.

Thinkingabouttherapy · 03/08/2024 14:26

Watching with interest as we have been considering this too. We plan to begin with 2-3 week lets in different areas to narrow down the best location & improve our French - perhaps we’ll decide not to buy after all. I’d quite like the flexibility of spending time in other places eg Italy and when you have a second home you do feel compelled to spend a lot of time there. My parents had a holiday house when I was a child & we rarely holidayed anywhere else

nowahousewife · 03/08/2024 14:57

As a second home not needing a mortgage why not? You don’t want to spend long periods in France so the 183 day rule is not a worry for you. If you change your mind and want to spend longer in France there are various type of visa available that you can get.
We bought our second home here on the Cote d’Azur in 2019 and have no regrets; in fact we moved here permanently in 2022 and love it. Getting yourself settled in, dealing with French admin, health system, tax etc takes time but most things can be done online so your French doesn’t have to be perfect. Dealing with local tradespeople has generally been ok although you have to accept you are in a different country and things are done differently.
Not sure how it compares with the SW although we were there a couple of weeks ago and did notice less English spoken.
If it’s what you want then go for it; you tend to regret the thing a you haven’t done rather than the things you have done in life.

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 03/08/2024 15:02

I seem to recall that someone told me that if you rent out a property in France then you also had to complete an annual tax return.

nowahousewife · 03/08/2024 16:08

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 03/08/2024 15:02

I seem to recall that someone told me that if you rent out a property in France then you also had to complete an annual tax return.

Yes but completing a tax return and paying your tax is not difficult. Alternatively you put it on your UK tax return, pay your tax in the UK and then when you complete your French tax return you’ll most like pay €0 French tax on it. France and Uk have a double tax treaty.