German Schools

[finknottle]

Get it off your chest

There are, as anywhere, good and bad aspects to the school system.

So if you want advice, help or an embittered rant - feel free.

On a postive note - anyone see the thread on Primary about security? I've just taken dd to kg and on the way back wanted to drop off a school library book ds2 has had since before Christmas and forgot again.
All I did is walk in, went to his classroom and left it on his PE kit so he'll see it at break.

No one worries unduly about security here. The caretaker has an office (all glass) outside the main building but he's rarely in it.

Is it only village schools? Looks so odd to me to have a school "locked down".

God what is it with us lot and the man in a suit, lol!
North is too cold, NbN, I'd go south. CH sounds like you'd be better set up language wise but Ernest would be able to advise you better.

NN ok had a chance to think a bit about it now but feeling I have a nerve giving any advice when I haven't managed to sort out my own situation.

Get Nachhilfe for ds1 NN if you can organise it. If he is getting 1s and 2s consistently you will have a basis for asking for reappraisal of his situation. I would get a year 4 Matheheft too and have him work through that as preparation to moving back up to year 4. Having now seen first-hand the amount of intensive tutoring some of these 9 year olds get, I would say, if he can handle it and it won't take the joy out of his life, go ahead, if it means him being happier longer-term.

They will not move him back up because you would like them to (judging from your prevous experiences) or because ds is unhappy (obviously this doesn't bother them much) so the only thing that would work would be the grades I think. Would he be one of the oldest or youngest in year 4?

I use Mathe King from Schlaumeier and the 5 Minuten Übungsheft from Mildenberger Verlag:
(Das Übungsheft 4, Neuausgabe
Systematisches Training der Grundaufgaben / Erweiterte Auflage zum Schuljahr 2006/2007
72 Seiten, vierfarbig, Gh, 21 x 14,8 cm
Bestell-Nr. 4503-54 ISBN 978-3-619-45354-2) see this page:
www.mathe-im-netz.de/klasse4/

www.amazon.de/Mathe-King-Schuljahr-Lernmaterialien-Schlaumeier-empfiehlt/dp/3129298827

See if they're any good for a tutor to work through with him or see if you can't find something appropriate in a bookstore. If you use the Easter break to do a fair bit a day, also German grammar and he achieves good grades, you might have a chance of skipping year 4 and moving straight to year 5 but I am afraid to say I think it will be very hard in Munich.

I would suggest taking him out and, if at all possible, putting him in year 4 of a private school for 1 year, tutoring him the whole time too - and then moving back to a state school for year 5. I sound pessimistic but I think possibly that is the only way you are likely to manage it.

I must say I have gone off men in suits

NN the situation in Bavaria sounds quite different to what I know here so not sure what you can and cannot do there. We don't have these tests here you mentioned, but can he not swot like mad towards that test if passing it means he can skip year 4 and move straight into year 5? (If I understood it right).

Do you worry at all that he might struggle with the whole system in year 5 not having had year 4 to ease him in? Not that he wouldn't be able to learn the pensum but that he wouldn't cope with the rigidity of the system and the type of homework they are expecting of him etc.

Can you apply directly to other state schools there, making an appointment to see the head and using as your reason for applying that your ds is unchallenged at school, that you are looking for a more challenging school environment for him. That flatters the school that you are assuming their standards are higher than the one you have. Or is this not possible there, do you hu have to apply through a central body for the state schools? Here you can apply directly to the school of your choice but you have no guarantee of getting a place of course.

I wonder if he couldn't spend a couple of Probe weeks at a new school in year 4 and see how it goes.

This morning I went into school to speak to one of the senior teachers who does maths with ds, he knows all about our problems with the German teacher who has now been off school for 4 weeks. The Ersatz German teacher has worked wonders, it's so nice to see the whole class come smiling out of school and some of the boys even want to come and tell me what they've been doing in lessons.
I went and told the teacher that I was so happy about the new teacher and that she had done such a great job etc. He then said that the old teacher was coming in today at 10:30 - she had to go to the office to see the headteacher and he hoped that the new German teacher would be able to take over. I wonder if this means the head is going to sack her? Or ask her to do less hours maybe?

He also said, if not then we Eltern have to get together and complain, even demand the new teacher. I might need your help with getting a letter together to ask for the other parents to get with me on this but hope that when I go in to collect the dc today we will know what is going on. None of ds's classmates want the old teacher back.

sounds like a positive development admylin. Does sound like the head plans to suggest she take early retirement or something. Obviously her repeated absence hasn't gone unnoticed in the Lehrerkollegium either. Bit surprised he said that to you actually. Good luck, fingers crossed you can keep this teacher. Will make such a difference to ds.

Of course I'll help with the letter. No problem. I think I'd have the letter and ask the dp to just sign it. Are they there for drop-off, pick-up generally?

No, it's really hard to get in touch with some of the parents, infact some of them have never shown face at school - don't come to parents evenings anymore because of the old teacher. I'll have to send letters out with the dc and hope that the message is passed on and that I get an answer. I tried to make a phone list at the start ofthe school year and only got 7 out of 14 to even agree to pass their number on to me so I can't even ring them all up to explain. Hard work being Elternsprecher in a class like that. I hope things will get better.

I mailed you btw.

Did anyone see Panorama last night about the Hauptschulen? They showed a Hauptschule somewhere in the countryside NRW, nicely behaved kids, engagierte Lehrer and so on but it was a total dead end nevertheless. I was really sorry for those kids. They were saying "oh we know we are the Abschaum" and one was saying "when you tell people you go to the Hauptschule, they start speaking to you V E R Y S L O W L Y". They were only year 5. It was awful. One boy was saying "even if I get good grades , all 1s and 2s, dad says it doesn't mean anything because it's just Hauptschule". Wish they would close those schools once and for all, really do.

The head of the school was saying, they know it's a dead end and they have no hope of getting an Ausbildungsplatz and how should we motivate them?

Then they interspersed those interviews with the minister of education for NRW banging on about how Hauptschuler were not "Restschuler" but every school form was valuable in itself etc etc. Actually they made her look a total fool not to mention really callous.

The poor kids though. I don't understand how anyone thinks that is ok, even if their own kids aren't affected.

I think dh was watching that when I was reading. He kept groaning and making comments´. Was it the one where the teachers offer a course on how to apply for benefits etc? That was so shocking. A friend of mine is coming up with her dd at Easter and we're going to do loads of school work with my 2 because her dd just got a hauptschulempfehlung for the 5th year. I can't believe it because I know the dd and she is so clever and creative and ahead of her age in lots of things. Obviously she didn't make the grades in her tests throughout the year but it seems such a shame. No one has taken into account her problems, she had that frühzeitigepubertät thing so had to take hormones to stop it and slow the process down, she has to go to a therapy becaus ethe hormones make her moods hard to control and understand, her dad doesn't bother to even wish her merry Christmas and her mum is at her wits end because of money problems, all factors that the school knew about too. Makes you wonder what sort of Schicksal most ofthose Hauptschüler have and what bad luck has contributed to them ending up there.

didn't see that bit about the course on how to apply for benefits. Suppose it is realistic though.

Feel sorry for your friend and her dd. It is a real stigma this Hauptschule thing, isn't it? What disturbed me most was the way those dc are perceived, even by other dc and how clearly they are aware of it. They really get the message from the age of 11 that they are totally worthless and how frustrating for good teachers who work at those schools and know even if the kids stay on, work hard and get a Realschulabschluss in the end, if it is on a paper from the Hauptschule, employers won't take it seriously.

Didn't see it, but really feel for those kids. It just seems so out of tune with the times to have this 3 tier system. I've met a number of people here who went to a Hauptshule but it was some time ago when a Hauptschulabschluss still counted for somethimg and it was possible to do very well from it.
I used to argue about this with dh; he was always very in favour of the 3 tier system and argued that children went to the school that most suited them. He is beginning to see that it's not all it's cracked up to be though.

god, yes, I totally second that about the Hauptschule! dd's classmates are mostly foreigners or children from big families, who haven't had nachhilfe because their parents dont have time/education or cant afford it. Two in dd's class have violent fathers who have recently terrorised their families. Several don't speak German, or their parents dont speak German.

Many of the realschule and gymnasium children are not inherently more intelligent, but have had an incredible level of support and coaching from their parents.

And as you say, the hauptschule children know right from age 11 that they've been thrown on the rubbish heap. Ive heard in Munich, that it's hard to motivate the older ones, because they just sit there and tell the teachers, why should we work? Nobody wants our diplomas, we will just end up unemployed.

The Hauptschule is a hateful institution that should be abolished asap.

admylin, Im one of those parents who never shows up at the school, and have never spoken to the elternreps. In our case, its because Im so pissed off with the whole thing, that I dont really want to talk to anyone more than I have to, as well as not having time. I have heard some really irritating stuff from elternreps who are just apologists for the system or the school, and whose own children are cruising along to the gymnasium without a hitch.
So if you talk to some of the missing parents, you may find that they would support you!

Ssandy, thank you for the thoughts. ds should be doing yr 4 now, though. Ive left it too late, that is the truth.
I was too busy with dd's problems when I should have been thinking about ds1 as well

He is VERY bright, but I am afraid that even if I got him a yr 4 place now, he wouldnt get the results in time. The exam is in May, which is only 2 months from now. I dont want to mount a huge campaign, and have ds working his heart out, and us laying out thousandy of euros in nachhilfe, just for ds to fail - again.

It's difficult alright. I had a look at the Mathe King year 3/4 book today to see what he is expected to learn in year 4 and my impression was that it was more or less repetition of year 3 (reinforcement) and the only truly new thing I saw was work with decimals - and that's fairly easy to grasp. So as far as maths is concerned, if he is on top of year 3, I would say go ahead. I don't know about the test for German, what that involves. You are in a quandary though.

Do you think that if you were able to let go of this concern, with time he might come to accept being in this class, presumably being one of the best in the class and that this might in itself be a good thing for him? Being top of the class is something after all and then you need no longer worry about the Empfehlung.

ohgod, I need to decide quickly, dont I.

I dont think he will come to terms with it. It was a big slap in the face, labelling him as a failure, unfairly. If he comes to terms with it, his view on life and his confidence in what he can achieve will be irrevocably affected - and I dont want that for him.
He has spent most of the last 12 months saying he is useless, a failure, that I should get a new son, that he shouldnt have been born, etc.

that makes me so angry, this is absolutely NOT what a school is supposed to achieve. I don't know how you manage to keep going, you must be unbelievably strong.

So if ds sits the test and fails or they refuse to move him up regardless of whether he passes (can they do that at all?), it will reinforce the sense of failure

hello

Looking back at when dd was in hauptschule
she was bored and un motivated so the best thing we did was move back to England where she was in the English system for three years.
And then on returning she was allowed to go to HBLA on a buisness type course. but she is stumbling on her german and looks as if she will be held back.
Also have to decide on mondy out of three bad kindergartens which one to choice or to carry on keeping ds out
sorry for ranting

mondy

monday even

apologies for ranting aren't allowed on this thread though cinders! This is the let-it-all-out rant zone. Sorry to hear the kigas aren't any good. What's wrong with them?

NN do you think an assessment from a Kinderpyschologe re how he is suffering from being put down could make any difference? I know you don't have a fat lot of time to do all this kind of stuff so I'm sorry if what I say is unrealistic. I am wondering what I would do if dd was in that position.

hi
started a threat earlier
re the kindergartens

the options are
1 that we withdrew him from
was uuuhhmm bad
ds upset continually and was told he was hitting

thread
not
threat
my mind is soo muddled
its twice i have written that tonight

didn't see your threat-thread. I'll have a look for it. Well you know 1 is bad, 3 looked bad (when were you there though, could it have just been a lull in an otherwise interesting kiga day?), what have you heard about 2?

the bad one is well
bullying not enough supervision, and a generall bad set up
feel sad a friend uses it
we have the town split in a four zone for where you go to kindergarten
It is her one

The bored one,was weird not just a lull the children swamped us when the teacher got out an activity and there was no communication between staff
It was eerie

the reson why I have three bad choices is
one of them is private
One is our one for where we live
And my friend has said I can request her one as I really do not have a car

that's a great choice. No way would I go for the bullying one (2), if it's between 1-3 perhaps the devil you know? Why was ds so upset there though? Was it the way the carers interacted with the dc?