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Wenn es im Winter stürmt und schneit, haben wir eine Flasche Glühwein allzeit bereit - life in Germany and Austria

909 replies

LinzerTorte · 25/11/2011 19:46

As I couldn't find a suitable poem mentioning Glühwein, I composed my own. Please don't laugh. Grin

All welcome - anyone living in Germany, Austria or anywhere else who would like to chat.

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Gator · 23/02/2012 12:56

admylin No, I don't think they are impacted or anything, they are just a bit of a pain sometimes. They are growing at an angle and pressing against the teeth next to them (which I hadn't realised, it was only when he went through the x-rays with me that I could see it). He was quite shocked that I still have them as apparently it's standard procedure here to just whip them out as soon as possible. I asked if it was complicated to remove them and he said they will have to cut a chunk of gum out and sew it up afterwards, gulp! He was really nice though and really thorough & he guessed my age at a good 6 years younger than I am too, so we like this dentist! (Flattery will get you everywhere with me, I am totally shallow.)

How does your DS feel about your parents? I guess if they hve upset him in the past then he's probably happy to not be left with them. I'm still shocked that someone would say that to a pregnant woman - especially their own daughter! I would have burst into tears.

I wonder if hockey-mama will reply.....

Thatisnotitatall · 23/02/2012 13:18

Gator my (German) DH had his wisdom teeth taken out as soon as we moved here (he was 31 and had kept them that long despite being German :) ) - they had been giving him trouble for years and years, on and off, while we lived in the UK but he wouldn't go to an English dentist! Glad you have a nice dentist anyway :)

Here is what I meant to ask when I posted earlier - what is the legal stance in Germany on corporal punishment? The friend who was here this morning is a bit of a bible belt American (funny who you fall in with when native English speakers,esp of a similar age and with small kids) are so very thin on the ground, as I am an atheist Brit... anyway she was saying how nice it is that my kids are well mannered and "obedient" (haha - but her word) and it is relatively calm with all 5 of our kids in the room playing together, and that so many German kids aren't etc. etc we've heard that comparison before including on here - BUT then she told me she sets aside 20 mins each day to "train" her children (age nearly 3 and 8 months!) and that if the nearly 3 yo doesn't do as she's told after 3 warnings she hits her on the bottom with a wooden spoon! She smacks the baby too, although "only lightly" - I did say I don't think you can "train" a pre-verbal baby, and that I haven't felt the need to hit my kids and think it is illegal here, but then changed the subject... Her children seem relaxed and happy not stressed/ scared or anything, but I was shocked! What do others think?? She also told me about a German acquaintance who she had recently invited over and decided not to pursue a friendship with due to the children's poor behaviour, but said that mother admitted she locks her 2 year old in a cupboard when she regularly tries to bite, scratch or hit the baby, as she won't stay in "time out"!!! I have not come across people doing (or admitting to doing) stuff like this before!

NoHunIntended · 23/02/2012 17:35

Crikey, Thatis. I don't think I could be friends with someone like that. It goes against everything I want to be with my child/ren. How sad for the children.

NoHunIntended · 23/02/2012 21:11

Does anyone know if Frankfurt has any apartment buildings that have swimming pools for the residents, or is this not the done thing? We are ideally looking near Gruneburgpark as this is close to where DH will be working.
What are some good websites to be looking at for finding an apartment? We don't need one for the first three months, but I'd like to start looking anyway.

NoHunIntended · 23/02/2012 23:21

Also, a question please, do they have online grocery shopping, delivered to your door?

Thatisnotitatall · 24/02/2012 05:24

I was quite shocked Nohun she is one of those very enthusiastic Americans who is always saying "good job!" excitedly to her kids if they do anything remotely clever/ nice etc. She is following a book she says - I am sure she doesn't hit them in anger and thinks she is doing right by them, it all seems a bit extreme disciplinarian/ old fashioned rather than evil or out of control in any way, but still seems distinctly odd. I wondered if it is actually illegal here - DH thinks it is and I suspect it might be too, although I think these things are often a grey area.

No idea about apartments with swimming pools in Frankfurt - sounds very fancy :) There is definitely no on-line grocery shopping here where we are, but Frankfurt could be different.

LinzerTorte · 24/02/2012 07:20

No time to post yesterday, as it was rather a stressful day. The entire morning was taken up with work, which I struggled to get done in time - I finally got it finished at 1.30 pm (the girls got home from school just after 12 so, apart from giving them lunch, I more or less left them to fend for themselves).

After 10 minutes to have lunch myself, it was then off to school enrolment. As I'd expected, DS was very clingy - he started crying and hiding behind me as soon as the headteacher started talking. The children were all then put into groups to go round the six Stationen doing the various activities, but DS wouldn't leave me; fortunately the head said it would be OK for me to go as well. First Station was the gym, where they had to do climbing and three or four other activities. DS refused to do a single one of them. Luckily he did get more confident as the afternoon went on and managed to sit at a desk on his own (I stood at the back) in the other classrooms, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll be OK to start. All rather stressful, though - I had to spend two hours going round the school while all the other parents had coffee and cake. Envy

Thatis It must be something innately American, as all the American mothers I knew would say "good job!" to their children whenever they did... well, anything that you wouldn't tell them off for, really. I wonder what book she's using. That's also quite shocking about the mother locking her two-year old in the cupboard. A friend of DH's in Germany said he locked the children in the cellar if they misbehaved, but I'm not sure how serious he was being. Saying "Geh, [name of child]" seems to be a favourite method of discipline here (the only form my SIL uses, as far as I can tell).
DD2 is really enjoying writing to your DD btw; the first thing she asked when she woke up this morning was whether there was another message from your DD!

Nohun No idea about Frankfurt either, I'm afraid, but we had a discussion about online grocery shopping on the thread a while ago and I'm sure it doesn't exist in Germany. I think someone mentioned being able to have drinks delivered, though.

Gator I have impacted wisdom teeth, but they rarely cause me any problems and the dentist has never suggested having them out. I'm hoping I won't need to now as I went to see a dentist (or was it an orthodontist?) about them in my twenties, who said that it would be a much more difficult job to remove them in my forties as the bone is harder then.

silken I heard somewhere that if you don't have problems with your teeth, you only really need to go to the dentist's every two years. I force myself to go every year, but I hate it - silly really, as I haven't needed to have anything done for nearly 15 years, but I'm always petrified that the dentist is going to find something.

admylin My mum isn't a huge fan of boys either and I know she would have been disappointed if I'd only had boys - she told me two girls would be fine, as would a girl and a boy. Hmm They weren't exactly over the moon about me having a third (silence was the reaction we got when I told them that no. 3 was on the way) and my mum recently told me that she'd had a dream where I'd told her I was expecting a fourth and she told me that we'd no longer be welcome to visit them!

Canella Envy of your child-free trip back to the UK. It's so difficult when you don't have reliable grandparents to help out, particularly as almost everyone else here seems to. We're looking after a friend's DC next month while they're in Spain for three days, so DH is hoping they'll return the favour and is already looking at hotels!

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admylin · 24/02/2012 08:02

Linzer wonder what made your ds cry? Could he maybe not find his friends from kindergarten? Hope he'llwarm to the idea of school over the holidays, has he got a best friend starting too? When will you hear about the results of the stationen?

NoHun there are apartments with pools and saunas (have seen some on Berlin and Hannover) but not sure how you'd find one apart from immobilienscout.de. No internet shopping as known in UK and shop opening times aren't as good although better than when I moved here (all shops closed at 2pm on Saturday and 6pm week days back then!). Now you can shop until 8pm and some shops do late night shopping until 10pm.

thatis not sure about it being against the law, I think it is or were they planning on making a law?

It's a run around day today. I'm off to pick dd up now and take her out of schol to go to the child psychologist (routine) then back to school for last lesson, fridge is empty so big shop after that (why oh why did I leave it until Friday?) then when I get back the house is a tip and I have to start sorting clothes and stuff for dd to pack for her school trip, then dyslexia lesson and then we have to go and search for slippers (a cheap pair) for the trip as she refuses to take her beloved cosy fluffy slippers on trip in case they get spoiled Hmm

LinzerTorte · 24/02/2012 08:59

I think it was just the thought of having to go round all the Stationen by himself, i.e. without me. We'd tried to prepare him a bit by telling him beforehand what he was going to be doing and he'd already said he didn't want to go round without me, so I was half-expecting it. He's going through a really clingy phase at the moment; I'm sure he'd have been fine this time last year.

The other thing that didn't help is that his best friend has chickenpox so wasn't there. There was only one other boy from his KiGa group, who he never seems to play with, so he didn't have any friends in the group - I don't think he even knew most of them. He has two other friends starting in September, but they were in different groups.

AFAIK (but I missed out on the headteacher's presentation because I had to stay with DS), if there are no problems we won't hear any more until the children get a letter from their new teacher in July. I seem to remember her saying when DD2 started that if there were areas that the children needed to work on, they would be in touch earlier. I must check with a friend exactly what I missed yesterday (I only remembered just before we left that I needed to fill in a form giving the names of the children who DS wants/needs to be in the same class as).

Hope you're busy day isn't too exhausting admylin. DD1 has her dyslexia lesson this afternoon as well, and I've got the English lesson to teach beforehand. I think two of them will be staying on for lunch, so had better go and see what I can make.

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Gator · 24/02/2012 10:00

Wow, Thatis! Locking a 2 year old in a cupboard seems batshit crazy a little extreme. I have no idea what the stance is here, but why on earth would you smack an 8 month old?! Odd. And wrong.

Nohun No idea about apartment buildings with swimming pools, sorry. I think we found our flat on www.immobilienscout24.de
I sometimes look on Toytown for information. There is a whole Frankfurt section so there will most likely be people there who can advise you.
Online grocery shopping doesn't really seem to exist here. I got all excited as the Real website have a shop online section but it's all non-food stuffs.
A lot of drink shops (Getränkemärkte) deliver, which is handy as people tend to buy water, beer etc in crates of 6-12 bottles, so saves you lugging it home yourself. Saying that, we just pick up crates of water & beer at the supermarket & DH lugs it up the stairs.

Linzer Sorry to hear you missed out on coffee & cake! I'm sure your DS' clingy phase will be over soon. A friend of mine's DS was like that for a while & she hated it, but then was really gutted when he suddenly lost interest in clinging onto Mummy!

Admylin I bet you'll be looking forward to a nice cup of tea & some Friday night wine after your hectic day! I walked past Deichmann the other day & they had some really cheap slippers on display.
When I was over here as a language assistant (9 years ago!) the shops shut really early & there was what sounded like an air raid siren announcing that the market was closing. The first time I heard it I really thought there was a war starting or something! That was in a tiny town in the back end of nowhere though. I used to be so glad to get into Hannover on a Saturday, or to spend my weekends in Aachen where DH was studying at the time.

LinzerTorte · 24/02/2012 10:42

We have what sounds like an air raid siren here too, Gator - they test it every Saturday at 12 and I feel like I should start looking for an air raid shelter. I think they use it in the event of a national disaster but what purpose it actually has, I'm not quite sure.

I've just worked out that the 20th anniversary of my year abroad is coming up next year. Now I feel really old...

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admylin · 24/02/2012 12:19

Linzer we used to have one of those siren things in the village where we used to live and regular Übungen by the freiwillige Feuerwehr testing their hose pipes on a field next to our house. Very prepared and organised!

15 minute break until the dc get in. Shopping was awful, so busy and as I was loading the car on the car park I heard a massive crash as an accident happened on the road. Brought back memories of my accident, the loud crashing sound and the air bag going off. Anyway, I got home the back way on the very slow road.

Gator I had a look at Deichmann with dd after the appointment this morning but she couldn't decide (too pink, too fluffy, just awful etc teenage girls eh) so she'll have to take her others unless we see some tomorrow.

Gator · 24/02/2012 12:22

Surely the purpose is to panic non-locals :) I reckon there are probably hidden cameras laughing at our reactions to the sirens!

I meant to add before - I think our SILs went to the same school of child discipline - mine just shouts 'Eh, Fräulein!' at DN.

I've just checked the weather report online & it's 9°c here today - positively tropical!

NoHunIntended · 24/02/2012 12:46

Thanks for the replies to my questions.

No grocery shopping online? Aargh!
Do people not drink the tap water? Do you always have to buy bottled? Do people filter?

Linzer, hope your DS is dong ok after his school enrolment day. Poor little thing, they are still so small.

Am Shock about the lack of boy love. My little boy is so snuggly and loveable and utterly delicious, even if I do say so myself! :) Most of my friends have had boys, it is quite bizarre!

NoHunIntended · 24/02/2012 12:49

*doing, not dong!

hupa · 24/02/2012 13:27

NoHun There´s nothing wrong with the tap water here, it´s just that most Germans seem to drink bottled sparkling water. I´ll love it if internet grocery shopping finally takes off here. By the way, the supermarkets here are a lot more basic than those you find in the UK. It was a real shock to me when I first moved here.
You might find some flats with pools on this site.

Linzer How did ds feel about the school visit? Is he looking forward to starting.

We also have the sirens here for the voluntary fire brigade. It always shocks me at how long it takes the engines to start on their way after the sirens have gone off. I know people have to leave work etc., but I´m sure most houses would have burnt down by the time they get there.

Thatis I´m really shocked at your friends behaviour. I don´t think I´ve ever seen anyone hitting their child, but I do know a couple of people who have said the would give a tap on the back of the hand if they felt it necessary. I remeber once meeting a woman who seemed really nice. I was talking about how dd was a real houdini at getting out of her cot. She calmly explained they´d never had that problem when their daughter was young because her dh had built a grid that they screwed on the top of the cot when the dc went to sleep. So basically her child was in a cage when she was asleep. I was shock, but she talked as if it was a perfectly normal thing to do

NoHunIntended · 24/02/2012 13:46

Thanks, hupa. Looks like a good link to pools, from what I can tell!
Am a bit nervous about how basic the supermarkets might be, from previous trips in Europe, they have all been a bit limited. We are also vegan, and used to so much variety here for vegan things, I am hoping we will find decent substitutes in Germany.

silkenladder · 24/02/2012 16:44

NoHun The supermarket chain Tegut sells a surprising amount of vegan food, although mostly along the lines of fake meat products. Soya and other milks seem to be easy to get, plus soya-based cream. There's also a chain of health food shops called Reformhaus which may have a bit more choice of vegan stuff - I've seen jars of seitan there for example. What I haven't found here is anything nearly as tasty as Sozmix (can't remember the current name), so I bring that over from the UK whenever we are there.

I'm not vegan by the way, but own several vegan cookery books and have looked for ingredients on occasion.

NoHunIntended · 24/02/2012 16:56

Oh wow, that's great, silken, good to know, thanks!

Lifebeginsatforty · 25/02/2012 10:22

Sorry, I've really had no time for posting recently, but I'm keeping up with the thread. silken where do you buy sozmix in the UK? I haven't seen it for donkeys years.

My year abroad was also twenty years ago Linzer, or at least it will be in October Shock. I can still remember so much so clearly. And when I left, I was planning to go back to live there - still not quite made it!

NoHun in my experience the Germans were always more into healthy eating than the Brits, so had vegetarian/vegan products under "health" products. They always assumed that I was vegetarian for health reasons and could never understand the concept of me having compassionate reasons. (Unlike the Brits who did and still do assume that I just don't like meat.) I think things may have moved on in the last twenty years though.

silkenladder · 25/02/2012 12:29

Holland and Barrett. It's called Granose meat-free sausage mix nowadays. I must say I'm very partial to sausage rolls made with it Smile.

NoHun forgot to say that it's still uncommon for products to be labelled as suitable for vegetarians, which I found quite difficult when I first moved here. Checking ingredient lists in tiny print in a foreign language isn't always straightforward, as you might imagine.

One thing I've noticed recently is that organic biscuits seem to be made with palm oil rather than butter, which makes me Angry as I suspect palm oil is probably evil, but may mean that there is more choice for vegans.

Lifebeginsatforty · 26/02/2012 07:57

Thanks silken, I hadn't realised it's now called Granose. I have seen that. I have very fond memories of Sozmix from my student days. By the time I came back after 5 years abroad, it was no longer to be found.

I also remember the days of perusing ingredients lists with great care; it's a great way to increase your vocabulary size dramatically. The problem being that the dictionary never has exactly what it says on the packet Grin. At least in German there's a chance a good quarter of the words will be guessable - you should try it in Hungarian Confused.

Palm oil is fairly evil, but really hard to avoid even when you're not trying to avoid butter. It is in most ready-made biscuits and cakes, etc. I think home-baking is probably the only real answer!

NoHunIntended · 26/02/2012 13:42

Feeling relieved that there will be some good vegan stuff for us. DS loves yoghurt, and breakfast cereal, so will be good to be able to still give him these without too much trouble.

I do bake my own cakes, so no problem there.

Busy busy here, honestly it feels like this packing and sorting will never end! Thank goodness we don't live in a bigger house and have even more stuff. We are definitely moving towards leading a life with fewer possessions. I'm not going through this every time we move!

Thatisnotitatall · 27/02/2012 06:31

Morning everyone

DD has just gone to the bus stop - so nice it's light now in the mornings, so I only need to stand at the end of the drive to see her over the road - was walking her half way when it was dark (cue neighbours asking me why, assuming it was a PFB thing, but it's just the crossing the road in the pitch dark - no street lights here).

We had first steps here yesterday - the baby turned 10 months and celebrated with 2 wobbly steps on his own! Would quite have liked him to celebrate with a few solid hours sleep, but you can't have everything! He is a cutie and growing up fast! Just need him to sleep to really appreciate how lovely he is - to appreciate anything properly to be honest is hard when a full 90 min sleep cycle is a rare and precious thing.

All the talk of years abroad reminds me that my mother STILL keeps calling my living here my "year abroad" - and comparing it to the 10 months she lived in California with when my dad did a locum (Oh I know how it is with the language, they called macs "rain slickers" in California, I had no idea what they meant" - hmmm yes mum, exactly the same thing...) we've lived here almost 5 years and I've had two babies here, and we aren't intending to leave til the kids are through school! Sigh!

I've been thinking a lot about the American friend who told me about hitting her dd on the bottom with a wooden spoon and smacking her 8 month old, the story she told me about her acquaintance locking the 2 year old in a cupboard may have been misunderstood I hope - her German isn't perfect, maybe the other mum was joking/ saying she felt like it when the 2 year old tried to hurt her baby sibling? Not going to stop seeing the American friend, though I considered it, after all it wouldn't stop her doing what she does and her kids do seem as happy as any others and not scared or unnaturally well behaved for fear of consequences, and my DS1 is a bit in love with her nearly 3 year old and is so lovely with her, don't think it will help anyone to say I judge her unworthy of our friendship, but maybe as she thinks my kids are obedient (they aren't, but better mannered than a lot of German kids, and DD usually refrains from doing her 6-year-old-teen strops in front of people) she might decide hers don't need smacking and regimented "training" in order to be pleasant... Maybe.

Linzer sorry to hear your DS was so clingy at the school thing - ours work a bit differently, but the kids go off with the head of the 2 partner schools in the area to be interviewed while the mum sits outside - luckily dd was fine about it, no idea how it will go down with DS1 when his time comes. The funnies thing I remember is that although DD and I had been chatting in English when he came to collect her for her interview, the head made no comment about that but was instead in raptures after her interview about how she had used High German when talking to him, where so many of the children use dialect! Do you think school in Sept is the best path for your ds or are you half hoping the Vorschule will be suggested? I don't think we have such thing here - the Vorschule Kinder are just the kids in the final year of KiGa who expect to start school the following year, and kids not ready for school for whatever reason just do an extra year at the same KiGa. My DD is really enjoying writing to yours to - will get her to write again after school, as I think the last message she sent just said she was off to stay with Oma and Opa and wouldn't be able to write for a few days.

OK time to change DS2's nappy and get ready for the KiGa run - this morning I need to try to write a review/ test for my English students, my next course starts tomorrow evening and I promised a review to see what needs recapping from the previous courses before we start, but need to actually write the thing, it's always the preparation I hate with teaching, esp when trying to do it with children always present needing stuff or getting into mischief!

LinzerTorte · 27/02/2012 07:45

Morning all,

Thatis I wouldn't be devastated if the Vorschule was suggested, apart from the fact that it would probably mean that DS wouldn't be with his best friend - which I think both of them would find upsetting. But I don't think there'd be any need for it either, as DS is absolutely fine when I'm not around (always very happy and chatty at KiGa, apparently) - just very clingy in new situations, which I don't think should mean that he needs to start school a year later. He's quite bright and can read a bit already (although not fluently like DD2 could when she started school), but can't write much more than his name - then again, very few children can at his age here.

Yes, Vorschulkinder are the children in their last year at KiGa here too, but they've also had a Vorschulklasse at school since last year (for children old enough to start school but who don't seem to be ready for school). I know one parent who kept their child on at KiGa for an extra year but I don't know how easy it is to do so, as legally children are obliged to start school the September after they turn 6.

DD2 was going to write straight back to your DD on Friday but we were a bit short of time so I told her to write over the weekend as your DD wasn't going to be able to read the message for a few days anyway - but then we were so busy that she didn't get round to it. I'm sure she'll want to write straight after she gets back from her piano lesson this afternoon, though.

silken / Lifebegins / Nohun I remember sosmix too - didn't realise you could no longer get it, but I haven't lived in the UK for 13 years. It was quite a shock to the system to move from the USA, where you can get veggie/vegan alternatives to absolutely everything (from a whole vegetarian "turkey" to bacon bits) to Austria, where the range of (not just vegetarian) food is very poor. The thing I miss most is not having a very wide range of pulses; you can get canned kidney beans and "white beans" and that's about it. I'd love to be able to get decent vegetarian sausages too; there's nothing on a par here with the Linda McCartney (and other vegetarian brand) sausages that you can get in Britain.

I also miss the fact that products aren't labelled as suitable for vegetarians. Surprisingly (to me), the labelling in the USA wasn't great either - I remember being devastated to discover that a delicious vegetable soup that we always used to buy had chicken stock in it when I happened to inspect the label more carefully!

hupa I think DS is looking forward to school, but he hasn't said much about it. However, he did start crying when DD1 told him that I'd put his name down for the Vorschulklasse (what I'd actually done was written on the form that we'd like him to have the Vorschulklasselehrerin, who's taking over one of the 1. Klassen next year) so I think he'd be a bit upset if he had to go to the Vorschule.

Gator It's supposed to be 16° here on Friday. I think I might get my bikini out!

admylin Hearing the crash must have been very traumatic. Glad you got home OK.

Must get this week's English lessons prepared now; I usually try to do it at the weekend in case translation work arrives during the week, but we were out most of the weekend (Bratislava on Saturday, DD2's first communion service and coffee afterwards on Sunday morning and then out at friends' in the afternoon and early evening) so I only managed to get one lesson done. I don't mind the preparation in theory, but I do hate how time-consuming it is.

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