Wenn es im Winter stürmt und schneit, haben wir eine Flasche Glühwein allzeit bereit - life in Germany and Austria

[LinzerTorte]

As I couldn't find a suitable poem mentioning Glühwein, I composed my own. Please don't laugh.

All welcome - anyone living in Germany, Austria or anywhere else who would like to chat.

Thanks for the welcome folks. It's still not looking certain. At work DH's main boss (not his official line manager who is in a different country) is making suggestions as to moving within the company. The problem is that the only none-English speaking option is Geneva, and that is just soo expensive, we'd be worse off than in London for a place that neither of us feel a strong attraction to. Actually it's more me that has reservations, for example I don't know if I'd be able to find work there.

Anyhow, yes tad I did have some courses with Ingrid Sharp. She really kept my enthusiasm going.

I lived in Kunzelsau fairly near Schwabisch Hall, when I taught in Austria I lived in Wiener Neustadt. I never actually learnt Schwabisch, I'm not that good a mimic, but I learnt to understand it, and most Germans from further north could easily tell which area I'd lived in. Equally when I went to Austria, my German friends laughed at how "Austrian" I sounded, but the Austrians used to ask which part of Germany I was from! So not really an authentic accent. And very English sounding now, I've been teaching it to school kids here far too long.

Thatis Oh I don't know, I just find it very hard to get excited about the whole you-must-have-fun-because-it's-that-time-of-year thing or to see doughnuts as some kind of delicacy. Particularly not when they're floury ones filled with apricot jam or, even worse, Vanillekrapfen. Proper doughnuts are sugary and filled with strawberry jam. Dressing up isn't really my thing either, so I'm afraid I shall be ignoring KiGa's request for parents to dress up for their Mittagsjause next Tuesday. I'm particularly not looking forward to hanging about for hours waiting for the not particularly impressive Faschingsumzug (you have to get there early in order to be able to see anything) - "well, don't go then," said DH helpfully. The DC would never forgive me if we didn't, though.

NoHun I think you need to have realistic expectations when you move abroad and there's always a period of adjustment. I don't have any experience of Frankfurt (apart from a school exchange to the Taunus area, which I loved), but Thatis is right about regions of Germany differing hugely from one another - I never really felt at home in Mannheim, but loved Berlin. I can't pretend I haven't been through phases where I would have been quite happy to move back to the UK, but I can honestly say I really wouldn't want to any more and think we have a much better life and standard of living here. There are obviously things about the UK that I miss, but nothing that would make me want to move back.

admylin How did your DD do in the test? DD1's dyslexia tutor also said she thought it very unfair that she isn't rewarded for all her efforts in her grades, and that getting a bad grade when she's obviously tried hard is very demoralising.

silken There are lots of villas where we live too and although I like the idea of living in a villa , they never seem to be laid out very practically (the Zimmereinteilung often isn't great). Considering how large they are, most only seem to have a couple of bedrooms (large ones, admittedly) and I know from friends how they eat up money - not just in renovations, but also in heating costs, etc.

I've been here 7 years now. I moved for work and stayed when I met DH. I'm 6 weeks pg and have questions on everything!!!! From when do you have to tell work through to all the secret German etiquette on kids that I'm likely to inadvertently break.

As an example on secret German culture, when I first moved here I washed my car in the street . No one complained, but I felt sooooo stooopid when I read about 3weeks later that washing your car in the street is illegal. I'm afraid of the car washing equivalent but with babies.

Linzer, thatis, Gator and NoHun thanks for the welcome- I'm looking forwards to your hints and tips :)

Linzer I agree totally about Karnival.

Here comes the seasonal rant. I hate Karnival. I'm more than a little afraid of crowds, the smell of donuts is making my newly pg body nauseous, and I really disagree with the whole organized fun concept. People here are a bit cold and distant for 11.5 months of the year, then they put on a ridiculous clown costume, start drinking at 11.11am and collectively agree to all have "fun". Plus the bars are stuffed, the ceilings drip with sweat, the music is a bit specialist and you spend ages in the freezing cold queuing to get in to whichever bar you choose.

I tried Karnival- two years running at the beginning when I moved here. So that's hopefully enough to say I've experienced the culture, and the locals are welcome to it!

Maybe the "Sitzungen" are more fun, but the humour here is very regional, so I still don't think it's something for me. Roll on Wednesday...

See I don't much like Christmas, for the reasons Linzer and Frescolota mention - applies more in the UK than here, I do like Christmas markets and glühwein... I prefer Fasching, which is more honestly ridiculous :)

Frescolota the first secret German law of babies is that they must always, always wear a hat - sun hat in summer, winter hat in winter, if it mild spring or autumn weather you may choose between winter and summer hats, but on no account should anybody see your baby's hair outdoors until they turn 3 :) I don't know about telling work - moved late in preg with DC2, was working when I found out I was preg with DC3 but only a 1 day a week ?400 job in a funny little Eltern Initiative school (which I do aim to go back to) - I told them when the kids started asking if I was pregnant or had just been eating a lot (with German directness)!

Frescolita You have just expressed everything that is wrong with Karneval sooooo much more succinctly than I could! I've just had a sort of indiscriminate mardiness around this time every year. It didn't help that I was 10 weeks pregnant, hormonal, massively nauseous & having just told DH's family on the day of the Umzug, had to put up with lots of whispering and pointed looks as SIL told all her friends and instantly pretended she hadn't. Grr!
Oooh I didn't realise how angry that had actually made me until I started typing!
(IMHO the Sitzungen are even worse, but it all depends on what you're into).
Strangely enough though, I love Christmas. Each to their own I suppose :)

On a slightly less stroppy note...

admylin How did the dictation test go?

Nohun I don't know Frankfurt itself that well, but as Linzer said, the Taunus area is lovely. That thread you linked to was really interesting. I think a lot of it is what you make it, but for me the positives are the health care here, the food, a different drinking culture to the UK and living in a wine-growing area and buying directly from the vineyards. The negatives for me are waves of homesickness, missing my family (we didn't live in the same country before, but close enough that we could visit every now and then, then I moved over here, my parents emigrated to the other side of the world and my poor brother is stuck in a country he doesn't really want to be in but without the funds to move!). ONe thing that really struck me here was what I would consider unfriendliness but for Germans I think is just normal. Business and private are kept quite striclty separated here IME and I find it quite hard to get to know people unless you are introduced through friends etc. That may just be my experience though and I find once you cross that barrier the Germans are very warm and welcoming, if a little direct.
(Linzer Whereabouts in Taunus were you?)

Frescolita I am probably in the process of making all the German baby mistakes so I will report back and you can avoid my mistakes
No idea about telling work as I had just quit the job from hell before falling pregnant.

In the student club in Dresden there used to be a room upstairs laid out with mattresses at Fasching! Made me feel really prudish and I'm not really! Mind, so did all the naked saunas.

What is a Sitzung, Frescolita?

I hope the dictation went well admylin.

Ds1 agrees about the valentine's cards and refused to do any. Embarrassingly, he had a bag full of cards and treats at pre-school. Needless to say, he liked that!

Well, tis almost 11, must go and pick up dd from school.

Nohun I meant to add - I have been here for two years now and am only just starting to feel settled - I think having DS has helped with that. I wasn't expecting it to take so long but from what I read on the thread you linked to it isn't unusual.

Thanks for the tips so far!

Am intrigued about car-washing in public being illegal! Anything else like this that we should know?!
Gator, can you expand on why the health care is better out there?

tadj, when I went to Germany before, and also Finland, I was at the mixed naked saunas. I just can't do it, I can't.

Nohun Bear in my this is just my experience - the others might see it differently, but here you don't normally go to a GP (unless it is something a bit more 'general') you go straight to a specialist, e.g. an ENT specialist, a gynaecologist, a physiotherapist, which seems to save a bit of time and faffing. It's generally easy enough to get an appointment and they don't seem to mind if you don't have one.

During my pregnancy I saw my Dr for every check-up and had, I think, 6 scans in total. In comparison to my friends in the UK who have been lucky to get 3 scans and had no contact with Dr for the entire pregnancy. Of course you have to consider whether you really need a Dr for every pregnancy appointment etc but I certainly viewed it as positive. I was hospitalised for a week during the pregnancy and felt very well looked after and can really only say positive things about the hospital. However, I have never been pregnant in the UK so can only go on what friends have told me.

I was also wondering what a Sitzung is, Jenny. at the mattresses in the student club!

Lifebegins I get that too - Germans laughing at Austrianisms I use, and Austrians thinking I'm from Germany. Actually, I think that's why I make such an effort with Germans I know here, trying to avoid words like Sackerl, Buben, etc. - I've been laughed at in Germany for using them, although obviously Germans who live here probably don't bat an eyelid (I hear our German neighbour come out with lots of Austrianisms, in fact).

Frescolita I hope washing your car in the street isn't illegal here - my Dad did it for me when my parents came to visit as they were shocked at the state of my car! Must check with DH.
To add to Thatis's hat advice, you must ensure that your baby is overdressed at all times, otherwise he/she will catch a cold. Always make sure your baby/toddler/child (up to the age of at least 6) has tights on under their trousers in winter or you will be told off by random strangers if they happen to catch a glimpse of bare leg if it's below 20°. Make sure coats are fully fastened at all times, or you may find people trying to zip up your children's coats for them.
Take your baby/child to the doctor if he/she coughs more than twice, as it may turn into pneumonia otherwise. (Having said that, I ignored DH's instructions to take DD1 to the doctor since it was "just a cough", and it turned out she had bronchitis.)
I could go on... but will restrain myself for now.

I avoided having to tell work by leaving Germany when I was 12 weeks pregnant, but from what I can remember, other women I worked with told the company fairly early on. IIRC they're not allowed to fire you as soon as you've told them that you're pregnant and there are also certain work-related requirements (working hours, work environment, etc.) they have to comply with. I also have the feeling that you can go to antenatal requirements during working hours without having to take time off, although am not too sure on that one.

Gator I was in Kronberg - and still feel quite nostalgic when I think about it! I think I fell in love with Germany there (and fell in love with a German too - but it didn't last).

Just a quick post to say that I'm swamped in RL at the moment, and I obviously have a lot of research to do regarding our options for moving abroad. I will definitely be back on here though, but please don't think me rude if I disappear for a few days. Reading this thread really is making me nostalgic for Germanic culture (good and bad). Be back soon(ish). Bis dann!

Thanks for that, Gator, does make more sense to go straight to a specialist, rather than go via a GP.
I had a lovely pregnancy and birth here in the UK, am actually more homebirth/midwife leaning than doctors and hospitals. Did you particularly need six scans, is that standard? I was happy with just the two scans, I wouldn't choose more unless there were complications. Are they ok about less medicalised births, do you know? Not that I even have a BFP yet, mind!

Hmm I'm not sure about homebirths, Nohun, as I never really considered one myself. I think you can choose to have your ante-natal care with the midwife, but she can't do the scans. There was no medical reason for having more scans, I just quite enjoyed seeing the baby :) (first pregnancy, massive worrier & extremely excited!) Maybe my doctor is just a little ultrasound-happy, who knows.

They seem really big on homeopathy and herbal remedies here so I imagine a less-medicalised birth wouldn't be a problem. I've heard from others that they try to avoid epidurals where they can, by telling the mother that it is too late or something, but I couldn't confirm that. When they asked me what pain relief I wanted I just sort of screamed that I didn't care

I've had herbal tablets prescribed for various ailments, sometimes they have worked, sometimes they haven't. I appreciate them a lot more after a really nasty allergic reaction to some antibiotics though.

Actually, thinking about it, the impression I get is that midwives are very into a less medical process, whereas the doctors aren't, which sometimes caused confusion as the midwife would say one thing and the doctor something completely different, but as a first-timer I was clueless anyway - still am in fact.

I imagine that as with most things in Germany, care, attitudes etc depend on the region you are in. I imagine Thatis and others who have given birth here will have different stories to mine.

Good luck with the bfp!

Nohun I haven't read through this properly but it might help:
Info

I still have a load of free pregnancy magazines knocking around - they are all in German but I would be happy to send you some if you like.

I must admit that I liked having all the scans too - particularly after having only been allowed one scan with DD1 in the USA (and the insurance company wouldn't even cover all the costs of that as they decided it was too expensive). I think a huge amount depends on the health care practitioner, whether doctor or midwife; I have a lovely gynae now who also offers treatments like acupuncture, and I wish I'd seen her when I was pregnant.

DS and I have just been to an open day at school, but I didn't find it all that enlightening - we didn't see much of the two 4. Klasse teachers who DS might have (one seemed to be hiding at the back of the classroom) and I know the school fairly well anyway. DS was very clingy and was too shy to even tell DD2's teacher his name, so I don't think he got a great deal out of it either. I have to go back in an hour for DD2's English lesson, but get out of teaching DD1's class as they both finish an hour early today.

Wow - loads to catch up on.

Nohun I agree with Gator in that I found midwives were much more into natural births and homeopatic remedies than doctors. Having said that, it was a struggle for me to get epidurals, but that might have just been in the hospital where I gave birth. I think homebirths are possible, but midwives are having to pay really high rates of insurance to carry out their jobs and some are less willingly to do homebirths as it costs more.

Silken I´m really about your new house. Our house is fairly old and very draughty. It´s also got a really stupid lay out. I´d love to knock it down and start again, but unless we win the Lotto it´s not going to happen.

If anyone gets the chance to go to the cinema I can really recommend "Ziemlich Beste Freunde." It´s one of the best films I´ve seen in a long time. Even dh was impressed and it´s rare that we found a film that we´ve both enjoyed so much.

Tut, tut, Gator, they would love everyone to go to their Hausarzt first and not directly to a specialist, hence the effing Praxisgebühr. (You pay 10? for your first dr visit every quarter, but you must have a referral for subsequent appts that quarter or you have to pay again.) Having said that, I've never been to a Hausarzt in 11 years of being here, and the FA has repeatedly reminded me that they will write referrals for me if necessary.

NoHun you can opt for midwife-led pregnancy care and not see a dr at all if you want. I don't know whether many people have homebirths, but as long as they are not illegal, I would think you could find a supportive midwife by asking around.

DD went into kiga dressed as a ladybird today and we're going to another Fasching party this afternoon (I draw the line at multiple costumes though). DH is adamant that we have to go to Wasungen for the Umzug on Saturday - has anyone else actually heard of W.? People here seem to talk as if it's world-famous for inventing Karneval, but I suspect it may just be the only place in the GDR where it was celebrated.

Yes, well, hupa, no need to get yet. I saw our architect yesterday and mentioned moving in the first week of April and he was completely aghast and started ranting about frost, so I guess we will have to wait to get in. Apart from that, we are no longer on speaking terms with one set of neighbours (and the others haven't started building yet) and the roofer jumped out of an 11th floor window a couple of weeks ago .

NoHun I had 2 dc in Germany. First birth was like Gator's with lots of scans. I enjoyed seeing the baby and was reassured seeing the doctor every time. 2nd baby I was looked after by a midwife and only went to the hospital for one scan. She came to me at home too which was good as I had my dc very close together in age so it was easy for me not to have to go. Had both dc in hospital but know a lot of home birthers so it's no problem as long as you have a midwife lined up.

Silken never heard of Wassungen! Viel Spaß anyway, hope you catch some sweets! We had people in Berlin standing in the front row with an upturned umbrella to catch the sweets and not letting any fall for the dc !

True the Hausarzt should be the first port of call but the great thing here (as compared to UK) if the Hausarzt decides you need to see a specialist, you can usually get an appointment really quickly and not be put on a several month long waiting list!

Hupa thanks for the tip, that film looks really good.

Linzer I had acupuncture from my midwife whne I was expecting dd - it was great. Your ds not speaking to the teacher reminds me of dd, is he looking forward to school?

Frescolita I agree about carneval! I hate the fact that the Germans are so cold and serious for most of the year then they go gaga for a few days!

Dd said she found the dictation quite easy. The teacher said at the end to underline all the nominalisierte Verben then after collecting the papers he said there should have been 7 - dd had 9 and some dc had 14! We will have to wait and see.

Ooh maybe it's different here then - I was shouted at & thrown out by my Hausarzt a few years ago for not going directly to a specialist. I had a really nasty sinus infection but dídn't know that was what it was at the time. He was horrible though, I won't be going back to him. I was in so much pain & hadn't eaten or slept properly in about 2 weeks & he was really nasty.
The quartetly fee you just pay at whichever doctor you see first in the quarter, then get an Überweisung from them if you need to go to another doctor in the same period, which is a bit of a pain traipsing back & forth but it saves paying ?10 every time.

On that note - do you pay the ?10 at the dentist too?

Gator yes 10? for the dentsit and 10? if you go to out of hours/emergency like hospital - that's what I've had to pay in the past. The thing that bugs me most is that for normal check ups you shouldn't pay the 10? but it's hard to find a FA who doesn't take it anyway. I've had check ups at the dentist though with no fee.

Thought of one thing for you NoHun - go on as many shopping sprees as you can before you come to Germany. Clothes are either really expensive or rubbish quality and there are no great bargains to be had. It is slowly getting better but it's one of the things I miss most about UK and always have a suitcase to fill when I do get the chance to shop back home.

That sounds a bit complicated with quarterly fees and Überweisungen, but then I'm the type of person who's easily confused. We can go to any doctor we want here without paying (providing he/she is a Kassenarzt) and definitely don't need a referral to the Frauen- or Kinderarzt, but I'm never too sure about the other ones. My GP said she would give me a referral to the orthopaedic specialist if I continued having problems with my knee, but when I spoke to his wife (my gynae) she said I didn't need one. I've also had Überweisungen for the ENT specialist and when I go for a mammogram, but I don't know whether I necessarily need one or whether it's just because they have to send the results back to the doctor who referred me.

admylin I think DS is looking forward to starting school, although he hasn't said much about it. I may have to prise him off me if his clinginess continues, however! DD2's teacher got him a chair for him to sit next to DD2 while I was teaching the English lesson (at the front of the class, about 2 m away from me) but after about half a minute he ran over to me and wouldn't leave my side for the rest of the lesson. I'm wondering whether they'll suggest the Vorschulklasse if he's equally clingy at the Einschreibefest next week.

hupa You've reminded me that I should check what's on at the cinema in Linz this weekend, as we'll be at my ILs'. I have an irrational hatred of dubbed films, but there are a couple of cinemas there that show films in their original version.

silken I'm hoping to get out of everything Fasching-related apart from the Umzug on Tuesday, which there's no getting out of - particularly now that I've arranged to meet three or friends there now too. Luckily DH is fairly British in his outlook in many ways and isn't into Fasching either.
We were supposed to be able to move into our house in April (seven years ago now) but it kept on being put back and was July/August by the time we eventually moved in.

Gator That doctor sounds horrible; I'm not surprised you won't be going back.

The Fliesenleger has just arrived - must go and make some coffee and get the biscuits out (he's quite keen on shortbread).

What a lot of posts, I can't remember much, not very good at retaining information these days (this will pass once I get a full night sleep, won't it?? )

Silken at the roofer! :(

No hun I have had 2 planned c-sections here after dd's (my eldest, born in the UK) birth was a nasty mess ending in an emergency section and 2 blood transfusions and not seeing her for 5 hours after the birth as I was back in theatre... So only know about planned very medical births from personal experience! But a the mum of one of DS1's friends had a home birth and tried to persuade me to try her very homoeopathic, natural birth midwife for a VBA2C with DC3- I was not up for it as my biggest fear was a repeat of what happened with dd, or worse, but the options are definitely out there!

Took the baby for his U6 check up today - he allegedly under weight - he is 9 months old and weighs 9.6 kg, which is 21lb. I somehow don't think this is really under weight for a 9 month old, but he is 77cm long and has dropped weight centiles from 90th to 50th, whilst staying on 90th for weight - paediatrician advised me to add butter or cream to all his food! I am a bit about that advice, but have just fed him a croissant filled with full fat Philadelphia for lunch, so will try to feed him up a bit! Apart from his weight he is aparently "top fit" - he was zooming around the consulting room in just his nappy, pulling up on cupboards and laughing like a drain, so he doesn't behave like a malnourished baby!

Ah yes there are 6 compulsory health checks for babies in the first year (U1-6, the first is at birth), followed by 1 per year til they are 5 - Kindergarten and school will want to see the child's yellow health book and vaccination record before admitting them - that's another German baby/ child health law for Frescolita and for NoHun and Lifebegins . No health visitors here, but you can see your midwife for longer post natally in the UK, then care switches to paediatrician.

BTW Christmas is worse than FAsching because you have to buy presents for people who need nothing, be grateful for receiving piles of soap and cheap chocolate, and pretend to like extended family you have no interest in - none of that comes with Fasching :) We already have the dressing up costumes - my kids are big dresser-upers and we have at least 20 costumes, they just picked from the existing dressing up box :) I don't dress up - I dress the baby up and use him as an attention deflecting accessory :)