Wenn es im Winter stürmt und schneit, haben wir eine Flasche Glühwein allzeit bereit - life in Germany and Austria

[LinzerTorte]

As I couldn't find a suitable poem mentioning Glühwein, I composed my own. Please don't laugh.

All welcome - anyone living in Germany, Austria or anywhere else who would like to chat.

Morning all,

Hi Lifebegins, I didn't realise it was Germany you were planning to move to. I haven't lived in Germany for years, but we moved from London to Mannheim over a decade ago and found life significantly cheaper there. I imagine Frankfurt might be a bit more expensive though, certainly as far as rents and houses prices are concerned. I think full-time Kindergarten would be significantly cheaper than equivalent care in the UK, for example, but we lived in Germany prior to the DC so I'm not too sure about child-related costs (there are other posters on the thread who'd be in a better position to advise you about child-related aspects of living in Germany). No need to apologise for hijacking the thread btw; everyone is welcome to come and chat, and there's no obligation to be a in a German-speaking country (Jenny is in the USA, for example).

admylin Hope your headache is better today. I think that, with the possible exception of toothache, headaches are just the worst kind of pain; it must have been awful having to do so much driving with a bad headache.

Gator Did you buy the steriliser in the end? I'm always finding things I want to buy on Amazon but then they won't ship to Austria - both on the UK site and on Amazon.de (most sellers who sell via Amazon don't seem to want to ship to Austria, so I have to make sure I'm buying from Amazon itself). Oh well, it saves me money I suppose.

DH is off work today, so I think I might send him shopping. I don't really fancy driving at the moment as we've had yet more snow, although the roads are probably clear by now. At least it wasn't as much as we had a couple of days ago so there shouldn't be too much shovelling to do. Am also hoping to get some work done during the day rather than having to cram it all into the evening, so hopefuly DH will take the DC off my hands for a bit. Or maybe I could just hand them over to the tiler as usual (now known as Fliesi).

He has also just informed me that he's off to Romania again next week. This week has been the only one that he hasn't been so far this year, and that was only because he was in Sweden for more than half the week. He was definitely lying to me about his new job not involving any more travel.

admylin How is your head today? Are you feeling a bit better? Headaches really are the worst, aren't they. I reckon maybe 6 months is the time to stop sterilising then - I think I'll see how I feel when we get that far and decide then.

Hi Lifebegins!

Linzer No steriliser purchase as yet - I reckon I'll just keep umming and aahing until I really don't need it anymore anyway.
If Amazon didn't deliver here my bank balance would be a lot healthier!
I'm stuck in the flat with a bad hip at the moment, I can barely lug DS around the flat, let alone up and down 3 flights of stairs with his pram & changing bag so the Amazon temptation is even greater. I will resist!
Wow - that really is a lot of travelling! Is that something that is likely to change in the near future or is there no end in sight?
Love the tiler as babysitter, by the way

gator I used to boil my breast pump and bottles, since it didn't seem worth buying a sterilizer. You could possibly do that once a week or so for peace of mind after you get rid of your sterilizer. Afaik no-one sterilizes sippy cups, do they, and most people introduce those for other drinks from 6 months.

lifebegins Hi. Please feel free to ask specific questions about living in Germany on here. I'm in the former East, where things often seem to be quite different to "im Westen", but other posters are in other parts of Germany and will be able to help as well.

admylin hope your headache has gone today.

linzer I have been chuckling at your tales of your dc and the tiler. Our Fliesis have apparently been busy in the house this week, so I'm looking forward to inspecting their work tomorrow.

Thatis I've also heard of lots of people having problems with their diesel freezing. We had English diesel in our car from last week and had no problems - obviously better quality despite being from Tesco .

I used to boil my pump and bottles from time to time too and just washed them in the dishwasher otherwise, as the DC didn't have bottles often enough to make buying a steriliser worthwhile. I've heard that there's some reason why you need to carry on sterilising bottles even after your child has started on solids and you're not sterilising feeding equipment, but I can't remember what it was - or why you would need to sterilise a bottle but not a sippy cup. But whether you actually need to sterilise at all seems to be a moot point in any case, and sterilising up to six months sounds like a good compromise.

Gator Oh no, a bad hip sounds painful - especially when you have a baby to lug around. Hope it's better soon.
I'm hoping that DH will have to travel a little less often once things have settled down in Romania (they're having problems there at the moment not interesting enough to go into), but tbh as long as it's only a couple of days a week I don't mind too much. I used to find it harder when the DC were younger and it would have been nice if he could have been around (even if he was at work all day) over the Semesterferien, but as long as he's here at the weekend I can't really complain.

silken How's the house coming along? Do you have any idea when you'll be able to move in? I hope the ORT books arrived OK, btw.

lifebegins dh applied for a job in Frankfurt last year and as I was looking at housing I was surprise dthat it was quite expensive but no way near as expensive as London. The cost of living is much lower in general and kindergarten and hort (after school care) is very cheap in comparison. Good luck with organising the move.

Linzer hope the dc aren't too sad when the tiling is finished! Hope your dh's job doesn't turn out to be more travel than before although he was away quite often in his old job wasn't he?

Gator you have my sympathy as I lived in a 3rd floor flat when I had 2 toddlers and shopping day was hell! In Berlin we were on the 3rd aswell but thank goodness the dc were old enough to walk up and down them selves. Do you dream of a ground floor flat with big doors opening onto your own garden too?!

Silken it's funny how even after so many years without the Mauer the 2 parts of Germany are still so different isn't it? There's also quite a differenc between north and south (and Bavaria) too. Berlin was like a whole new country after having lived near Stuttgart for years.

Headache is better - I had a really early night and some tablets! Dh is ill, he's on anti biotics but still at work as he's one of those workaholics who has only had about 5 days off work in his entire life!

Thank Silken. It's useful to know what other people did. The issue isn't really how long to sterilise for, more is it worth buying a microwave steriliser so I can have my worktop back!
I think the reason they say 12 months seems to be because of the milk bacteria, which is why sippy cups etc aren't sterilised. This is what I've picked up from a few threads on the subject anyway. Then again, like Linzer says, there seems to be a debate about whether to sterilise at all! So I think I'll probably leave the microwave steriliser and see how I go.
Good luck with the house tomorrow!

Linzer Fingers crossed the travel reduces soon!
I was planning on starting the Shred next week (depending on my hip - I sound like a pensioner). DH totally misunderstood and thought my plan to lose the baby weight involved watching Shrek I think I prefer his way!

admylin Crikey - 2 toddlers and a third floor flat sounds like hell! I share your dream of a ground floor flat with huge doors that open out onto my own garden. One day......

Lifebegins I forgot to mention on the other thread - one thing to be aware of in Germany if you're looking for a rented flat is that you might need to pay a lot of money up front. The norm seems to be a deposit of one or two months rent, one month rent in advance and then an agency fee (called a 'Provision') of (I think) 2.5 months rent, which you don't get back. If you can avoid an agency you can avoid the Provision so it's worth looking on the internet.

And the sleep refuser is grizzling again.

Had loads to say, but the morning has just wiped my brain completely! So tired. Dd is waking up at least once a night and my cognitive functions are being gradually eroded, I think! At least it has turned out a nice sunny day. Have so much to do in terms of thank you cards for dd's and ds2's birthday this week, valentines cards for the whole of dd's KG class (and possibly ds1's daycare class too and the Girl Scout cookies have come in this week. Aargh! I need several days just to tidy and clean the house, never mind do anything else. Better go, ds2 has just upended the bin again... Sorry for such a me me me post. Hope you all have lovely weekends.

Thanks for the warning Gator. I had expected to pay more upfront than in the UK, but that is a lot more!

Make sure the place you rent has a kitchen (as in fitted, not just a room empty of units) too lifebegins - again I don't know whether this is the same across Germany, but here it is more common for rented accommodation not to include kitchen units, not even a sink - if you are only aiming to rent for a year or two that's not ideal! We knew our house came without a kitchen but managing with a microwave and camping gas burner and washing up in the laundry sink in the cellar for the first 2 weeks wasn't ideal - we bought an Ikea kitchen as quick as possible, but that's money you might not want to spend for a shortish rental :)

Just had a surreal moment, stuck on the sofa feeding ds2, ds1 answered the door and came and told me "There's a girl at the door, I don't know her name but I guess she's my friend, I have seen her before, can I play with her?" Turns out she's a girl in dd's class at school, though not a particular friend of dd, not sure why she has decided to come and play with 4yo DS1, but she is determined she has, so fair enough, they are playing Playmobile! DD is out sledging and utterly was uninterested when she came back for different gloves...

I'm pretty sure my friend in Dresden rents her kitchen extra from her landlord and it's really modern as it was a newbuild apartment.

at dcs' preferences, thatis!

Hallo!
Some of you were kind enough to post on my Leaving Comfort Zone thread (I namechanged for that on the remote chance that my husband's current employers saw me on here, as my profile is not hidden)! So thank you to those who did. Lots to think about, and plan - we are coming to Frankfurt! DH has taken the job.
I started reading this thread, hoping to finish it before I posted here, but you lot chat a lot and I haven't even gotten to the Christmas bit! :)
Anyway, just thought I'd dive in anyway, I'll catch up on the rest of the thread when I can, but I think we will be rather busy over the next few weeks!

We have a 16mo DS.

Thanks Thatis. In fact I was already aware of that possibility having looked for rentals in Austria 10 yrs ago, and coming across apartments with no kitchen (or even bathroom). DH and I have been discussing it, and we think we may try and buy straight away, if we can find some sort of temporary accommodation for a couple of months while we take a good look around. It really depends on whether he has to go straight into work, or not.

There is a market for used kitchens, though, so having to buy a one isn't necessarily as ridiculously wasteful as it might sound. I would be surprised if a flat didn't have a bathroom fitted, so don't worry about that!

Linzer have pm'd you .

NoHun congratulations

No need to read the thread before joining. Our chat is mostly inconsequential anyway...

Hi, can I join? I don't actually live in Germany now, but studied German in university, and lived there for a year. We try and visit Austria each year, and would love to move there, but it isn't really practical :-( I miss speaking and hearing German, and miss living there.

Hi Primrose, of course you can join. Whereabouts did you live in Germany?

silken Thanks for your PM; will reply soon.

How long are you planning to stay in Germany, Lifebegins?

Hi NoHun and welcome to the thread. You probably don't need to worry too much about catching up as the same topics often come up time and again (in my case, at any rate!).

Thatis DD1 often plays with DD2's friends and even with DS's; she gets on really well with DS's best friend, in fact, despite the five-year age gap.

Jenny at you having to send Valentine's cards to the whole class. There are times when I'm quite glad that they're not into sending cards here! Sympathies on the sleep; hope it improves soon.

Gator at you losing the baby weight while watching Shrek. Wrt to the sterilizer, if it were me I probably wouldn't bother now that your DS is a little older. I read somewhere the other day that parents were advised to sterilise before the advent of dishwashers, but that as long as you wash up thoroughly it should be OK. (Disclaimer: I'm sure you could also find conflicting advice about how important it is to sterilise until 6 months/12 months!)

Must go and put the DC to bed, then we're going to look into flights back to the UK for the summer. We have to let KiGa know by Tuesday when DS will be going over the summer, so it would be useful to know when we'll actually be here...

jenny Valentine's cards for the whole class - that sounds like a mammoth task! Is that the norm over there? I only found out recently that the girl scout cookies are delivered. I thought each girl scout baked them herself, but then I also imagine they all live in houses with white picket fences and wear frilly aprons to bake in. I need to stop watching tv!

Lifebegins We found our flat on the internet and managed to avoid the massive agency fee, so were quite happy. You can search for flats which have a kitchen already (Einbauküche, or EBK) to avoid having to buy your own. The kitchen might not be to your taste (ours is brown; every single appliance and surface is brown) but it's a rented flat so that will be the case with everything.

Nohun How exciting! Do you know when you'll be moving? Good luck wading through all our chatter

Hi Primrose! Where in Germany were you? Do you get chance to get back much or do you stick with Austria? I studied German too and would really miss it if I didn't hear it on a regular basis.

Linzer I've pretty much decided not to bother with the microwave steriliser. If it was just the steriliser I might have gone for it, but we'd need new bottles too. I'd rather just not spend the money and avoid the faff. Anything for an easy life!
Good luck with the flight search!

We started looking for flights to Canada for Christmas but were too tired to think about dates, child seats, car seats on planes etc so we gave up and opened a bottle of wine instead. :)

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

Gator, we don't have a firm date yet, they want him at the start of April, but DH has to give more notice than this to his current employers, so we have to wait and see if they will release him of this contractual obligation. He thinks they will. But until this is confirmed, don't know. But we are working on a decluttering/packing/get organised/say goodbye schedule that sees us away in six weeks. I know this time will fly.
Got to clear our home in London as we are keeping it to rent out, but having some major building work done on it first, so loads to sort out. Luckily, DH's new employers sort out a flat for us in Frankfurt for the first three months, so we don't have to think about that, at least.

Linzer we hope to stay at least until the DC are through school, although if we're unhappy we'll make sure we go before they start secondary as we don't want to disrupt their schooling too much. Actually I'm ready to put down some proper roots, just not in the UK. The problem is that always before when I moved to a new country I only ever planned on staying two years, so that I had a kind of get-out clause. Saying that we'd like to see them out of school is actually scary. But on the other hand nothing is set in stone.

NoHun I'm glad you've made the decision. I'm sure you'll find it a great experience.

Thanks to those who posted about the rental properties. DH and I have discussed it a bit more, and as we're selling the flat here in London, we think it makes more sense financially to buy again as soon as possible rather than faff around with savings when we don't want to invest the money long-term. Tomorrow I'm going to buy a load of books on how to move to Germany.

I think DH is handing in his resignation tomorrow. Then we'll see how long they want to hold onto him for.

Hi Primrose where did you study, and where did you live? I studied German at Leeds, and lived in Baden Wurttemburg.

Hi everyone! I studied French and German in Swansea, and decided to spend my year abroad in Germany as I had never been there! I lived in Olpe, which is about an hour's drive East of Cologne, and taught English in a school. I have been back there a few times, but we tend to try to go to Austria each year if possible, because we just love it there.

Back to normal here today with the DC back at school and DH back at work (and the tiling finished; the plumber is coming tomorrow, but not until after work so he shouldn't be here for long).

Primrose I went to an open day at Swansea with either my French or German class (can't remember which now), but I seem to remember the course had a bit too much literature for me. Do you have plans to come to Austria this year?

Lifebegins I can't imagine moving now as it would be too much of an upheaval to take the DC out of school, but before we moved to Austria I'd never spent more than 2-3 years in one country since leaving school and it did feel strange at first not to have any plans to move on after two years or so.
Whereabouts did you live in Baden-Württemberg btw? We spent two years in Mannheim pre-DC.

NoHun It's good that you have your accommodation sorted out for the first few months, and it will be much easier to look for somewhere more permanent once you're actually there.

Gator Wine sounds far preferable to flight hunting! I did both... and have booked flights for the first couple of weeks in August. Ryanair was the cheapest and easiest option, although I'm now looking for a hotel for our first night as the flight doesn't land until almost midnight.

Guten Morgen.

Linzer I bet you're enjoying having the house back to yourself and the peace! Did you find flights for summer?

primrose do you still use German on a daily basis for work now?

lifebegins I used to live in Baden Wurttemberg (I can never spell it though) near Stuttgart! How did you get on with the Schwäbisch? I miss it now that we live in the north. Are you learning German or do you speak it already?

Nohun wow, 6 weeks is short, busy time ahead of you. I know what it's like, we had to move within 4 weeks once from one end of the country to the other and it was hard going. Hope you have plenty of helping hands.

Gator sounds like what I do, start looking for flights but usually give up! Are there any good deals for Canada if you book so early?

We had a cosy Sunday, no one moved from the house, on the agenda: sitting under blankets, reading and eating and drinking! Dd spent the afternoon laying on her bedroom floor playing with her playmobil that has been put away in a big box for ages now. She decided at the weekend that she's not a teenager yet so she can still play with her toys sometimes!

Morgen admylin. Yes, we did find flights - see my reply to Gator above. ?530 for the four of us initially, although once we'd paid for priority boarding and luggage (only one piece), it came to over ?600. I've e-mailed Novotel at Birmingham airport (we spotted it last time we were there and thought it might come in useful!) so hopefully we'll be able to get a room there - according to their website, they don't have rooms for more than three people but I'm keeping my fingers crossed we don't have to book two.

DD1 still loves her Playmobil and has said she's never going to get rid of it, even when she's older, as she's going to keep it for her children.

Must phone up Lakeland now. They've finally decided to charge a reasonable amount to deliver to the continent, but you no longer seem to be able to place an order via the website if you're abroad.

Wow that's a bargain. We wanted to go to London in March to see BIL and my niece who is having her first baby but have left it late to get that sort of deal I think. How much do you think we could expect to pay for a hotel in London for 4 of us?

Playmobil and lego is definately one of those toys that you can keep for your grandchildren! My dc have my old lego mixed in with their new stuff and how ever often we move I have my special boxes of playmobil, lego duplo (if it's still called that) and normal lego. Ds has huge collection of lego bionicles that'll be worth keeping too!

We paid £170 per night for a room for the five of in November, but we'd left it quite late and could have got somewhere cheaper - at one hotel we looked at (where I always used to stay with my parents), we could have had a room for £125. Are you looking for two double/twin rooms? We've generally paid around £80 per night for a double room but again, it does tend to vary and we've had to pay up to £120. Travelodge is supposed to be quite good and there's also Premier Inn - we saw quite a few in convenient locations, although we weren't overly impressed with the one where we stayed in the Wirral. It was OK as a base, but not particularly cheap for what it was.