Advice on whether binders are safe

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi, my dear best friend is in a bit of spin as her daughter (13) is saying she wants to be a boy, and she wants a binder.

I didn't even know for sure what a binder was, and looking on line with her, I'm still confused! Some look like T-shirts, some like sports bras and some look like something else!

My friend is not a mumsnetter but she knows I am always on it and she asked if I could find out a bit about binders. Are they safe, for age 13? Do sports bras work as well. Or should she just say no?

Her dd has never been a typically 'girlie girl' but she never expected this and I must say I am quite surprised too.

She gave me permission to ask about this and I'd really like some practical suggestions for her, please. She's a single parent so making decisions pretty much alone. She's really quite blindsided by this and not sure whether to just say no or completely give in!

I am advocating a kind of middle path, but I am not sure what that is. I've read a bit about the subject and also had mental health issues with my own dd so used to walking on egg shells!

Please don't think I want to interfere! It is all my friend can talk about at the moment!

We have gender fluid people in my wider circle of family and friends but no talk of binders so please help, and be kind!

Okay I haven't read through many replies... All I can say is this:

Spend moderately on binders. Get one from gc2b or underworks, don't buy cheap. Get it professionally made and measure accurately. If it's not done properly it can: bruise ribs and sometimes crack them, restrict breathing, cause irritation and make the wearer sore.

Use male pronouns if the person has come out as a trans boy. It is extremely disrespectful to call a trans person by their old pronouns behind their back.

Don't blame it on cosplay or a lack of female role models. I idolised many females in my childhood, but always felt male.

Be supportive and look up all the risks before giving information back to anyone. The only people you should take proper advice from are trans people themselves, ACCEPTING parents of trans children, doctors and gender professionals.

That is all and I'm sorry if anyone gets offended by this.

No offence taken.

Just make sure, if you are a parent, that you talk to anyone proposing irreversible medical intervention for your child that they have considered their wellbeing in its totality and not solely focusing on gender as the be all and end all.

quillette.com/2018/03/01/transgenderism-social-construction-diagnosis/

@CalebTheTransBoi my friend asked her GP who advised against a binder. I think her daughter is making her own binder.

There are lots of references to being supportive parents on line. I wonder does that mean doing what the child wants to do. If the child is still underage, e.g. 13 then the parents are responsible for them.

I just wonder how parents square all their thoughts and concerns for their child and help their child without allowing them to be pushed along.

Any advice I can pass on to my friend would be welcome, please.

Are there any annonymous, online forums?

My 1st year uni student daughter announced she was a transgender man last year. We were very shocked. Last year was very traumatic for us all but this year we are seeing cracks in her belief. She wears a binder but agrees that it can be harmful (she had a rotator cuff injury that just appeared within a couple of months of wearing binder, she claims the injury just happened i blame the binder). She has recently discussed how uncomfortable she feels about her breasts to me and how wearing any sort of bra other than a sports bra would not be an option. She is very slim and used to wear a 32DDD . Has anyone any suggestions for a very comfortable sports bra that does not have cups or breast shaping? The bras i have given her to try on she says are worse than her binder. 1 x champion bra, 1 x fabletics bra

@Deebee67 that doesn't sound like cracks in his beliefs at all.

Binders are uncomfortable and they can cause injuries if not used correctly but what does that tell you about your son? That the discomfort of having breasts is far worse than the discomfort of a binder. You should be grateful that he is opening up to you about it... especially when you so clearly disrespect him by referring to him in the incorrect way.

Please listen to your children!

@Italiangreyhound

One option for your friend could be to get a bigger size of a binder for their child. This is a compromise because it won't bind as tightly but they still have a binder.

It's great that their mum is looking at this stuff for them and reaching out to try and support him. It could be a phase but it could also not be. It would be very damaging for a trans child to be ignored because the parents think it's just a phase. Please check up on the mental health of the child too.

With regards to online influences I know that growing up I would only look at things that resonated with me or interested me. Being trans is not 'cool' and I think most children would not find it cool but just a part of life. If the child has been seeking this kind of content out it is usually for a reason.

@Deebee67 I am so sorry to hear you are going through this too. I can see how distressing it is for my friend's child and for her.

One person suggested as this child almost certainly has autism (is on the spectrum) that a compression vest may had the parts of her chest she feels uncomfortable with and may also help her to feel more comfortable in herself.

I found this and suggested it to my friend and she has not tried it yet. I'm not recommending it, I just don't know. It was an idea, because people with ASD like the feeling of some compression on the clothing.

www.sensorysmart.co.uk/sleeveless-therapeutic-vest-top-singlet---calming-clothing---medium-to-firm-compression-11056-p.asp

may hide not may had...

@OceanNJ thank you for your suggestion, I will pass it on.

Are you willing to say what your experience is in this area?

" It could be a phase but it could also not be." She hasn't said she thinks or hopes it is a phase to her child. I know what that is like for kids. They can't really imagine things not being as they are so I'd never say to a child it's just a phase.

"Being trans is not 'cool' and I think most children would not find it cool but just a part of life. If the child has been seeking this kind of content out it is usually for a reason."

I think there are a lot of reasons why trans things are currently very much present for young people, they are linked in to anime which many young girls like a lot. I don't know how old you are or whether this is something that you like but people my friend's daughters age are very into this stuff.

I know my friend's daughter finds it all very distressing and maybe for her it doesn't feel sudden. I have been reading a bit about Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria and it does certainly feel very rapid for me looking in on it.

I think the mum is just thinking in the long run whatever happens of course she will always love and support her child. Just as I love and support mine too, (they are the same age).

I have read a few stories of children who desist and so I think watching and waiting and being supportive but giving room for this not necessarily to be the final story is a good thing. My friend's child is lovely and I really wish them all the best.

Thanks for engaging.

Sorry did not respond before

@CalebTheTransBoi I'm not offended. I want to learn. "Don't blame it on cosplay or a lack of female role models. I idolised many females in my childhood, but always felt male." The thing is when this appears alongside a very strong, almost obsessive interest in anime and cosplay I am not sure how the mum is meant to separate this from these things. Can you explain, you really do not need to but if you are willing to PM me or post again, how did you feel male? What does it mean? I do understand a dysphoria about 'being' female but I don't know what that means in terms of feeling male. I;m sorry I did not reply more fully before, it's been a very busy couple of months and I have not got back to this thread for a while. Apologies.

@OkPedro "I used to feel envious that England was so progressive" I know it is very tough. It's not a positive thing for youth to always have their self beliefs validated, IMHO. I feel young females have a lot of negative self beliefs.

But because we all love the young people in our care and friends of our friends kids we just have to work through things. In the long run they will be adults and they will make their own decisions, that's my feeling anyway.

Hi @Italiangreyhound

I identify as trans my self and have done a lot of research regarding trans issues (that has won university awards and been published).

I also wear a binder so I know how it feels. If they do agree to get a binder make sure they measure all areas of the chest accurately. I would also only buy GC2B binders. They have a very quick message response on Facebook and could answer your questions about a size that would fit comfortably and not too tight. They also offer a free exchange if the size of get is not suitable.

With regards to this whole anime thing - I think for some children it is certainly true that they would be influenced by such things and others will just be interested because it is relatable. I think only time will tell.

Also, I have three responses to Rapid Onset Dysphoria:

• If it is rapid onset then it is no less valid than long term dysphoria and no less distressing. After all it is still dysphoria. I cannot explain the utter horror of being dysphoric - you want to pull your skin off and escape.

• If it is rapid onset then it may be because puberty has set in and the changes associated with females may have suddenly set in and caused distressed. I know that as a child I felt socially dysphoric ( in case you, or anyone reading this doesn't know - social dysphoria refers to feeling discomfort with social assumptions that relate to gender ( so pronouns, expected behaviours and gender roles£ but not so much physical because I was flat chested!

• it may appear rapid onset to everyone else but the child because children who feel ashamed of who they are try very hard to fit in and hide who they are. This usually lasts until it's too unbearable and the truth comes out.

You sound very supportive and you're certainly a great friend. Good luck to you all!

@OceanNJ thank you for your lovely response. Supportive. Well I want to be but I am very, very saddened by any female who feels so unhappy to be female.

Of course if a 'condition' (like dysphoria) is long term it needs a lot of care but if a 'condition' is created by association with other things, it may need a different approach.

The internet seems to be full of 'supportive' meaning only one thing, going along with what someone else wants to do.

But sometimes one might need to say no, and that is never popular.

When we are dealing with children it is even harder, if a person is an adult who makes an adult choice then as a friend one can say if that is best for you, great I support you. As a parent you have to think wider.

My friend is doing her best, I know she is. She says she would literally die for her child, as most parents would. But knowing what is best, it is hard. It feels rapid, maybe it is not. I think one fear some of us have is living in the present, making choices now. When our kids (I am a mum too) are older we will be able to live with whatever they choose, we hope. We will love them whatever.

I hope you have support where you are. Please continue to engage, it is so helpful to me and I will pass it on. My friend is not keen to join Mumsnet (and knowing the amount of bloody time I spend on here, I don't blame her!)

Sorry double post.

Has your friend had a look at the long term effects of wearing a binder? The damage they do to the breasts is quite awful, especially if one chooses not to fully transistion.

As a teen I truly hated my breasts, and puberty, and my developing body. These are completely normal feelings.

If the child agrees a good sports bra and masculine clothes is a good compromise. Id also limit exposure to gender issues on youtube and social media while she made her own choices and decisions.

Thanks @Hyppolyta yes she dresses very androgynous. I've told my friend about reducing internet, but having a teen myself I know that is hard - impossible

I have a female child who identifies as male. Underarmour bras are their favourite. Never wears them at night and often has a day off (in pyjamas). The only time a binder is worn is for swimming and/or on the beach.

@StarkStaring thanks. Are those bras available in UK, is this on the UK? I never thought about swimming in one.

Underarmour widely available - sports bra.

hi i realise that this is a tad late and you won't be needing any advice but it is very important that you listen to your child it is essential to their happiness!! If they want to bind, let them bind but make sure you invest in a good one brands like gc2b that are good quality are widely used. Of course wearing a sports bra is safer than a binder but if a binder is used correctly then you will be fine, for example never sleep in it, and wear it for less than 8 hours (most breaks possible), never ever use ace bandages and if the binder hurts than stop wearirng it and get a bigger size or use a sports bra instead!

hope you take my advice!!

cooldad2003 thank you.

Hello right g-12 is a very good and safe binder company you cant bind for more then 6 hours a day at 13 so probably enough to get through the school day yes there are downfalls to bonding but you just have to be safe and sensible about it if you can be that cool excepting auntie figure be it if his mum need a break take him out shopping take him to pride and what not but most importantly try and find an LGBTQ+ youth group hope this helped

ryanshetlandd thank you for your input. Have suggested LGBT friendly youth club, and autistic friendly youth club (he is on spectrum). He is not interested in either.

But I will suggest things whenever they come up.

He is not very sociable but does have friends.

Thank you.