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LGBT children

This board is primarily for parents of LGBTQ+ children to share personal experiences and advice. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful that this is a supportive space.

Is it ok for DS1 aged 17 to share a twin hotel room with a F2M trans student?

51 replies

ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 17:49

DS1 has a friend that he has known since they both joined their mixed sex secondary school in yr7. In years 7-10 his friend attended school in the girls' uniform and was known by their birth (female) name. In year 11 they started to be known by most of the students by a male name of their choice and the school turned a blind eye to some uniform transgressions as they sat their GCSEs. The friend now attends sixth form in the boys' uniform and is known by staff and students by his chosen male name. He wears binders under his clothes, as he has undergone female puberty.

A residential trip is coming up connected with an extra-curricular activity and DS has been allocated a twin hotel room with this friend. The school have asked my views and those of DS. DS sees it as a complete non-issue and says he would feel comfortable sharing with his friend. He has shared rooms on similar trips with people that he hardly knew, and feels that this would be more comfortable for him than that was. He didn't specifically ask to share with this friend, this is just the proposed allocation made by the school.

I intend to follow his lead, and to make no objection to the rooming arrangements. But I do wonder - is the school doing the right thing in allowing this? Should the friend be given his own room? I understand that he shouldn't be asked to share with a girl. But should he be allocated a room with just one male student (DS)? And should DS be asked to share with him? DS obviously would never be allowed to share a room with one of the girls that are going on the trip.

DS is a sensible, intelligent and thoughtful young man who is very supportive of this friend, though they are not best friends or anything like that, just part of the same social group.

I would really value opinions from people who know more than I do, as google has not been tremendously helpful but brings up policies that seem to be suggesting a single room for the friend.

OP posts:
AnthonyBlanche · 05/03/2016 20:29

But the young person in question is not a boy, he / she is biologically female. It is not appropriate to suggest that your son shares with someone of the opposite sex. How would you feel if the sexes were reversed and your daughter was being asked to share with a boy who had long hair and wore girls clothes?

ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 20:29

Hmmm. I think the school needs to step up and make a decision about what is appropriate, not ask me whether it's ok. They need to protect the friend's privacy and not put DS at risk of allegations (however unlikely) that would have to be taken seriously even if they weren't true.

OP posts:
ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 20:35

Because I can't decide whether this is ok, because I can't be given full information. The school wouldn't be able to give me any personal information about the other pupil (his sexual preference? his psychological issues?) without breaching his privacy.

OP posts:
TheChimpParadox · 05/03/2016 20:40

OP may be worth a shot speaking to the below charity on Monday.

The link also gives details of the Equality Act and transgender issues. Gender assignment is a protected characteristic that's why I said the school may have difficulty if they treat the boy differently by making him have a single room.

I think it's worthwhile speaking with Mermaids.

TheChimpParadox · 05/03/2016 20:40

http://www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/the-equality-act

Useful if I posted link Grin

janethegirl2 · 05/03/2016 20:41

If my DC was ok with it it wouldn't bother me, however I'm quite happy with boys sharing with girls etc.

My dd would share with boys or girls as she wasn't bothered, as long as they were friends it was ok.

Pontytidy · 05/03/2016 20:53

A protected characteristic should not mean that the boy in question has a right to share a room.

ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 20:57

No. I think it means the school has to include him in the trip if at all possible. It doesn't mean another student should/must share a room and bathroom with him, I think.

OP posts:
calamityjam · 05/03/2016 21:05

Firstly this child is trans not bi sexual. Secondly if both children are OK with this what's the problem? Your son won't turn green and go blind if he sees the other boy getting changed. Its all fine do t make it an issue.

DixieNormas · 05/03/2016 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GlitteryShoes · 05/03/2016 21:08

I don't think the issues is about whether they could have sex - if he was sharing with a boy they could have sex too. I would think the main risk is awkwardness and your son accidentally seeing or walking in on his friend ( or his friend on him) and it being misconstrued or upsetting for either person. If anything, I'd be happier with them in a 4 bedded room where there are witnesses.

I'm a foster Carer, and while it's not an identical scenario, when we look after children of different genders they cannot share a room but we are alleged to all share a family room

Pontytidy · 05/03/2016 21:14

They cannot "make" him have a single room but neither should he share with others. Why should they ask another pupil to shares room - this could be views as pressure ie might feel he has to agree. The gender is not clear , it would be acceptable for a girl and boy to share a room.

AnnieOnnieMouse · 05/03/2016 21:14

As long as ds and the FtoM boy are ok with it, I can't see an issue.
No-one checks sexual orientation for these events, so why should assigned birth gender be an issue. I think that kids these days have more friends of both genders, so sharing a room with someone is less of an issue.

Bambambini · 05/03/2016 21:31

What are the overall DOE guidelines on different sexes sharing though - is it allowed? I can imagine it would cause a few eyebrows if there was a case where a school actually allocated a room to seperate sex teens who then had sex and a possible pregnancy.

Bambambini · 05/03/2016 21:32

I think the school asking op's son if it's ok is putting quite a lot of pressure on him to say yes. How does he actually feel about it?

BunnyTyler · 05/03/2016 22:02

It really doesn't matter if both of them are 'OK with it' or not.

It is a school trip, not a privately arranged trip; surely there is a duty of care whereby the girls & boys on the trip are awarded a level of safety and modesty?

The usual way to do this is on biological sex alone.
This is to protect both sexes from being in a sexually vulnerable position or at risk of vexatious allegations.
Also to allow a degree of bodily privacy (like changing rooms).

This person is still female, OPs son is male - it is up to the school to manage this properly and not in the wishy washy half-assed way that they are (ie side stepping any responsibility).

ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 22:07

😀 bunny. But HOW should they manage it?

OP posts:
BunnyTyler · 05/03/2016 22:15

They should manage it by putting your sons friend in his own room.

However he identifies, and however he chooses to live, he is still physically a female teenager on a school trip.

It's a safeguarding thing, not an acceptance thing.

Pontytidy · 05/03/2016 22:18

I agree the school are sidestepping the issue by asking the other child.

ProfGrammaticus · 05/03/2016 22:19

That makes sense to me. Are there safeguarding issues around allowing a student to room on their own on a trip though? I'm sure the school usually avoids it.

OP posts:
BunnyTyler · 05/03/2016 22:28

That's up to the school to decide for themselves.

I wouldn't be happy with my sons being made to share with a girl because of the potential risk of vexatious allegations; I'd imagine that a parent of a girl wouldn't want their daughter sharing with a boy either because of the potential risk of assault.

In the case of a male bodied male to female trans person, would that be ok with the school or parents?

reallyjustreally · 07/03/2016 18:50

A difficult one but it's really down to the school to guide rather than pass it to you. It should have policies in place - what facilities etc does the student use in school?

That saying, if there are no policies I would say, if both are happy with it, that they should be allowed to share. It's hard enough being a trans-teenager, so any support from their friendship group means so much.

I was lucky that my daughter (MTF now in late teens and has been "in the system" as trans for about 8yrs) had a close friendship group (male and female) in school that she was able to be herself around. We've had many of them to stay at our house over the years and they shared my daughters room as they are friends having a sleepover - nothing more, nothing less.

This may identify me, but I'm OK with that. A boy (so FTM) my daughter met through her trans counselling has moved in with us as he was suffering abuse where he was living and had been ostracised by his family. He's opened up so much since he's been living with us, and has really started to feel comfortable in his own body. We have an in-joke that they should swap body parts as they'll be meeting in the middle in their individual transitions.

ProfGrammaticus · 07/03/2016 19:07

Thank you very much. I think this boy does have a lot of support and acceptance from his peer group. The school haven't had to create a policy yet and I think they are struggling a bit, though I am impressed with them in general. I spoke to them today, said I would follow DS's lead and had no objection to make. They aren't too sure from a safeguarding point of view and say they will get back to me. I agree that they need to make a decision and I said as much to them. It was a useful conversation.

OP posts:
UsernamePending · 25/04/2016 23:30

I am an FTM student (year 10) and I was given he choice whether to stay with the boys or girls on a residential trip and (just like the majority or trans people) I would be far to uncomfortable with my parts to have sex with anyone and wouldn't be able to explain that to most people properly in a way that's easy to understand (without just looking like a prude) so it's highly unlikely that that would ever be a problem with trans students

UsernamePending · 25/04/2016 23:30

I am an FTM student (year 10) and I was given he choice whether to stay with the boys or girls on a residential trip and (just like the majority or trans people) I would be far to uncomfortable with my parts to have sex with anyone and wouldn't be able to explain that to most people properly in a way that's easy to understand (without just looking like a prude) so it's highly unlikely that that would ever be a problem with trans students

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