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Am I allowed to leave the UK with my daughter?

33 replies

RomySchneider · 07/04/2010 15:18

I would be grateful if anybody could shed some light on this for me:
I am German and living in the UK with my daughter (4years). She was born in the UK but has a German passport. I live together with her dad who is British but we are not married.
The relationship is not going very well and I am hoping to move back to Germany. He has now told me that I cannot leave the UK with my daughter.
Does anybody know whether this is true seen as we are not married (he is in the birth certificate though).
I might add that I am the sole financial provider, he has not had an income in all the 7 years I have known him.
Thank you for letting me have your thoughts on this.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 07/04/2010 16:24

As you are in the UK and the birth was registered in the UK, UK laws apply.

As others have said, you need the permission of everyone with parental responsibility before taking your daughter to Germany on a permanent basis. As the father is named on the birth certificate, he has parental responsibility.

If he will not agree, you will have to apply to the courts for permission. The court would then decide what was in your daughter's best interests. They wouldn't stop you from going back to Germany but they might stop you from taking your daughter with you.

You can't even take your daughter abroad for a holiday without his agreement. However, if you separate from him and get a residence order, you will usually be able to take your daughter abroad for up to one month at a time without his permission.

RomySchneider · 07/04/2010 16:32

Ok thanks for all your help, I guess I will have to start court proceedings in case he's not willing to give me permission (which he won't)

OP posts:
skihorse · 09/04/2010 05:37

Romy, please feel free to email me on suzanne @ busmail dot org as I have a German friend who went through almost exactly the same as you and she would be happy to talk to you. Her ex(husband) was British, he beat her and was basically a worthless shit. She went down the legal route but says in retrospect she'd have just "gone" and kept her head down for 12 months because once the child is settled, no court will force a move back to the UK.

She left the UK in 2004 (I think) and has since remarried and now lives in Belgium. She takes her son back to the UK 3/4 times a year and pays ALL the flights, he won't even fly to Brussels for a handover and won't visit here... oh, and still threatens her.

prh47bridge · 09/04/2010 10:38

I'm afraid anyone who thinks they can just go and keep their head down for 12 months is mistaken. If she had taken her child out of the UK without permission she would have been guilty of a criminal offence. The police would have come after her.

The idea that "no court will force a move back to the UK" is completely wide of the mark. The courts expect people to comply with the law and any court orders. Even if she had managed to avoid detection for 12 months, she and her child would have been returned to the UK when they were found. Based on the international treaties in place, she would not have been able to argue against that. One she was back in the UK, she could have faced imprisonment.

Lanugo · 09/04/2010 11:35

I've looked into this before and it looks like you'd have a strong case if your child's father tried to stop you going. It IS different for the unmarried father - they don't have the same rights as married fathers. If you made a case to leave and he opposed it it would go to the family courts and you would have to prove that you were moving to a better life for you and your child (job/family support etc.). If you can prove you're not trying to move maliciously then you should have a strong case. Good luck.

Sushiqueen · 09/04/2010 13:54

We went through this as my dhs ex applied to move to Europe with their children.

It had to go through the courts as it was the only way to ensure that a fair agreement was made. Past history meant he wouldn't accept her word.

The courts insisted that she had to show that she had really looked intot he whole process, how she (and her df) would support the family. How they would be able to afford to live etc.

Also she had to show excatly what she would do to ensure that the children would maintain contact.

We ended up with a court order specifying weekly phone contact (took it in turns to phone) and contact every holiday. We agreed to share the travel costs. In our case they moved to France so they brought them over from France and we met them at the ferry terminal and then we took them back to France and they met us at the ferry terminal there.

If the whole family came over for the whole time then we paid half the travelling costs of the ferry as we then didn't have to do the trip.

The judge told us that as it was only Europe there would have to be a very good reason for him to say no. But he was strict about pointing out to her that she had to make sure that there was regular contact.

Obviously we couldn't do much if some of the court order wasn't complied with - such as if they didn't phone when it was their turn or provide us with written reports of their wellbeing etc.

But to be fair we did always have the contact with them at holidays and often ended up with longer than the court order specified.

We also had it written in that if they ever came back to the UK for any reason then they had to let us know so that dh could see the dc and vice versa if he went to France.

As long as you have done al your homework and have all the paperwork to back up your application you stand a good chance. Show you want to be fair with visits and contact. And be prepared for the legal bill

StepSideways · 09/04/2010 14:04

I suggest you take a look at this link;

www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/Applyingforaneworrenewedchildpassport/DG_174106

These laws are there for a reason, imagine your husband was of another nationality and decided to clutter off with your children.

Sassa · 09/04/2010 20:41

Hi there

I'm afraid if he has PR you will need his consent to move. Although saying that, even if he does not have PR it is easy enough for him to apply for it and still ask the court to make an order preventing the move. The court would make a decision based n your reasons for leaving, prospects and of course most importantly the benefit to your daughter versus the effect of losing her father.

Hope that helps

Best regards

Sassa

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