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Original poster

advice on immigration after divorce!

28 replies

iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:02

Hi,

I am just looking for opinions and just basically to know where I stand. Pls don't kill me for this

you probably remember my previous thread about the messy divorce so here it goes. If there are any solicitors out there pls I will apreciate your input. If I was to apply to the court to go back home and live with my daughter there (Bulgaria), how likely is it that they would let me? I am not planning it but I want too know if I ever decide that I am not happy happy here, I have options!!! MY DD was born here but also has Bulgarian citizenship. I am all alone here....no relatives, family and hardly any friends. It is hard and my ex sees her only when he has time...not very often that is!!!! She loves it there and even sometimes says she wants to go. What do you think?

OP posts:
Bucharest · 04/12/2009 16:10

Why do you have to ask the courts if you can go?

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:19

because her father lives here and is British and would not let me go. Obviously he wants contact with her and will never give his consent for me to take her out of the country permanently.

OP posts:
Bucharest · 04/12/2009 16:25

I'm sure that as long as you had joint custody and he is allowed due access etc then no-one can keep you in a country you don't wish to stay in!

Have you spoken to a solicitor about it? CAB?

expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 16:31

'then no-one can keep you in a country you don't wish to stay in!'

No, they can't. But they can keep you from returning to that country to live with the child.

You need to see a solicitor in person.

I can see where he is coming from (disregarding situations in which the husband/partner has or is abusive, violent or addicted to substances and refuses to get help).

I'm from America, my husband is Scottish and our children were born here (I now have British nationality, however).

If we were to split up, well, I'd be on my own here, too. And he'd never consent to my taking our children out of the country permanently.

And tbh, I don't blame him one bit! If the shoe were on the other foot, nor would I!

I chose to have children in an international relationship.

There are consequences to that.

And one of those is that if we split up, I have to make my life here whilst my children are young as really, it's in their best interests that they're in the same country as their dad and he has as much contact as possible.

Not in my best interests, perhaps, but that's life when you have kids.

DecorHate · 04/12/2009 16:34

I think they can Bucharest - well they obv wouldn't prevent the mother going but they might very well prevent her taking the child... I don't know what the situation is in the UK but I know of someone in Australia who wanted to move back here after her husband had an affair and the marriage broke down but couldn't until the children were 16 ( I think)and then they could decide what they wanted to do...

expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 16:38

I know someone from New Zealand who's been living here for 10 years since her relationship broke down as the father is British.

She's only got 6 more years to go until he's 16!

But seriously, she aches to return to NZ to live, but she realises that whilst this is what she wants, it's not what is best for their son, who has a good relationship with his father and sees him often.

It's been hard on her, but she shrugs and says, 'That's what I get for having a baby with someone from another country.'

Point taken.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:40

i bought a family law book and there it says that it is possible if i can prove that I have made arrangements to live in the other country and I can prove I am not happy here, because I am also allowed to have a life!!!!

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 16:42

and she's allowed to have a close relationship with her father.

yes, it is possible you could live there with her.

IF he were very willing.

but if he's not, the possibility is much slimmer, and it's going to be costly on your part.

expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 16:45

you need a solicitor, not an internet board, and you're going to need money.

but seriously, you cannot force this unless you can prove he is an unfit parent.

just 'i'm not happy' isn't enough in such cases because you're talking about the interests of a child, which a court may conclude if the two of you cannot reach an agreement.

you need to stop looking at this from a 'me, me, me' standpoint, because from a legal standpoint i can tell you this isn't going to do you any favours.

and start thinking more along the lines of how contact can be set up so that he will be more amenable to the idea.

and what is in the best interest of the child over hte long-term.

you cannot just go, either, because that is child abduction.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:53

no no of course I will not just go!!!! I am not even planning it ....just wanted to know if I ever want to go what can I do? The thing he is not much of a dad anyway and is not helping me at all. I have my whole family back there and is always good for her to grow up around relatives. There are no relatives on his side except a mentalli ill brother. She will be better off there i think!!! But I know he would not consent to it not because of her but to make me miserable

OP posts:
Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:55

of course I can always wait until she is 16 and she can decide for herself.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 16:56

seriously, see a solicitor.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 16:59

I have one but he is not willing to discuss this. He is dealing with my divorce at the moment!!!! But yes I will do....thank you all

OP posts:
mumblechum · 04/12/2009 17:23

Hi Iva, if your ex didn't consent, you'd have to make an application under the Children Act for a specific issue order (the specific issue being whether you could take uyour dd permanently out of the country).

I've had a fair bit of success in court in these cases, but only where:

  1. The "taking" parent, let's assume it's always the mum, has very clear reasons to go abroad, and in particular can clearly show in what ways the child would benefit from going
  1. The mum has made clear and workable plans for contact to take place, eg for Bulgaria it would be direct contact for at least a week at a time, on a quarterly basis plus lots of indirect contact (letters, photos, emails, cards etc)
  1. The mum will, if necessary, pay the dad's expenses of the trips. They can rack up!

I realise that this is only a vague notion for you at the moment, and would suggest letting the divorce run its course first, let things settle down before deciding whether to apply. If by then your dd doesn't see her dad very frequently, there'd be more of a chance of success than applying now when she's only recently separated from her dad.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 17:32

mumblechum thank you so much!!! Are you a solicitor? I am on legal aid and my solicitor is not willing to discuss this with me. " he says...i am not here to advise you on immigration law!"
Anyway I understand what you said. My reasons are:
I have no help, no family, no relatives and hradly any friends here.
My daughter understands the language and is used to going there regularly and likes it alot. I have a very strong family bond with my poarents and they would be a great support. There are excellent schools there and she loves to go there. Not sure if i can pay his expenses to visit but I can come here maybe twice,three times a year. she only sees him once a week for few hours and that is not always the case, only when and if he has time. He has drug history which i am now using to divorce him. A bit hard to prove it but it's true.

OP posts:
mumblechum · 04/12/2009 17:40

Yes, I'm a practicing divorce law.

Your solicitor isn't being asked about immigration law, your query is about children law which falls within the divorce legislation.

I'd leave it a year or so then review whether you should apply for a specific issue order at that time. If you qualify for legal aid for the divorce, you'll qualify for the Children Act proceedings.

mumblechum · 04/12/2009 17:40

-yer!

expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 17:44

why not start keeping a log of contact, too. dates/times of visits and drop offs.

to record any waning patterns.

again, you have to see this from his point of view to have the best chance of success.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 17:45

sorry I am so silly.....of course you are!!!!! I just re-read your thread that you have had success in court. Maybe I can get your details and contact you if i decide to do it? But let me know how much money I should prepare

OP posts:
Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 17:51

good point maybe I should start keeping a diary! That way I can prove what has been happening. thanks

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 04/12/2009 17:54

it can't hurt! and it's free to keep a log of contact for later.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 18:40

good point maybe I should start keeping a diary! That way I can prove what has been happening. thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 19:16

sorry I am so silly.....of course you are!!!!! I just re-read your thread that you have had success in court. Maybe I can get your details and contact you if i decide to do it? But let me know how much money I should prepare

OP posts:
mumblechum · 04/12/2009 19:51

Hi Iva,

I don't take on work thru' MN - wouldn't be right, and anyway I don't do legal aid.

If you're not happy with your current solicitor you should ask for a meeting to discuss your concerns. It's quite hard to change solicitors when you're on legal aid, but once the divorce bit is over, you are free to change solicitors to deal with the Children Act stuff. You can find a family law specialist on www.resolution.org.uk.

Original poster
iva555 · 04/12/2009 20:16

i understand Will check it out! Thank you

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