please help dh contacted by csa re: dsd, sorry long...

[humptynumpty]

Before we even get started on this, can I just say that I am here for advice and am aware that the way my dh has acted in the past in not acceptable and am not here to be judged for that.
Dh was married and divorced more than 12 years ago. He and ex have a dd who is now 14. He has never had any part in her life, until this year when dsd contacted dh through friendsreunited. He began emailing her in a very gentle way which he has never hidden from me. He has never been offensive to her mother or told her anything upsetting etc... when she has asked why he isn't with her mum etc, only that it didn't work out. DSD was keen to meet dh. i was very wary, but agreed that if she really wanted it, we could arrange it. he contacted ex-wife and explained situation. ex-wife put her foot down and said no. ex is remarried and ex has stated quite clearly that dh is not the dad and is not allowed to refer to himself as dad, her new partner is the dad. she will not allow dh to see dsd, and we agreed to leave it until she is older and can meet unsupervised etc (ie until she is 18). Also dsd calls herself by the new partners name, although it turns out her name has not been changed legally, but she uses it in all situations.
Today we got a letter from csa saying ex is applying for maintanance. I agree that dh should pay for his child, but cannot understand the csa form. the form wants to know all about me and my kids as well as the amounts of child benefit and tax credits we earn.
What i want to know is, if we start paying maintanance which of course we will have to, does that mean that ex cannot forbid dh from seeing dsd and also that she can say that he isn't allowed to be called "dad"? Also does that entitle dh to be more involved in dsd's life. At the moment, they are only allowed to email, ex has banned him from using msn, texting and phoning...
Sorry I am pregnant and hormonal and worried about my kids etc.... I just want this sorted out as quickly and easily as possible, any advice greatfully recieved.

No I realise that she wants to have contact with dh on some level, or at least know how to contact him if she wants to. But don't see how it's gonna work with dh and dsd having any sort of relationship more than that without the ex poisoning it any more. Am still so for dsd

Oh god, I don't know where to start. I'm not sure I can go into this in huge detail actually without opening up a whole load of old wounds for myself and giving too much away (again).

Safe to say that you and your DH find yourself in a situation quite similar to the one my DH and I have been in, but a few steps further along the line of "badness" IYSWIM.

To cut a very long story short, DH's ex suddenly decided to recontact the CSA after many years of happily ignoring their assessment and taking cash from DH instead. Result - many years of arrears with no way of proving direct payment. Ex's can and do change their mind whenever they feel like it, but do be grateful that your DH doesn't have 12 years of arrears to deal with.

Similarly, our SDC's had to call ex's husband "dad" despite having an ongoing relationship with DH. That was horrible for him, but in your DH's circumstances I'm not really surprised that they see their SF as dad - I don't think he can really expect anything else.

I think it will be very difficult to get any message through to your DSD just now if her mother is playing games. Your DH can only do so much and just has to hope that whatever he says will be remembered further down the line when she's an adult and not so much under her mum's influence. Again, this situation is far from uncommon. To quote our situation again, DH's ex has poisoned both his DSD's against him so that even now they're grown up we never ever see them. I hope and wish it turns out differently for you.

It definitely sounds like your DH's ex might have gone to the CSA to get back at your DH. She had ample opportunity all these years and didn't, so she must have a specific motive now. But that's not to say that she's not entitled to maintenance - of course she is, and you are very lucky that you are only having to pay £8 a week. DH's assessments were as high as £70 a week in the past - on the old CSA1 system, when he was in and out of temporary contract work - and it damned near bankrupted us.

I'm really sorry I can't offer more positive advice. Unfortunately once contact issues and the CSA become entangled it can do a lot of lasting damage. It really is best to try to separate the issues in your own heads or else you'll go mad.

In that email, I'd ask her if SHE wants to change her name, or is this her mothers idea?

The reason I say this is, when I was EIGHT, my mother wrote a letter to my absent father asking him to sign adoption papers. She put in false info about my Dad being a doctor, and it was so we could go to private school and share inheritance with his bio kids. All complete lies. I didn't find this out until I was about 27 and met my father. It pisses me off no end that I was not consulted about this at the time, but that is typical of my mother.

At 14, your DSD is old enough to give her opinion on the name change, and if she wants it, then fair enough.

Sorry, I realise I focussed rather too much on your first post there, not appreciating that you've moved on from that really.

Regarding this email, I just want to sound a word of warning not to be too shocked or disappointed if DSD backs away from this now. If she's got into her head that her father doesn't want her it could be very hard to shift that idea. She may just retreat back to her mum and stepdad. I'm not saying she will, but that is how it panned out with us - and as I said, DH had a fuller relationship with his DDs than yours has been able to have with his, for whatever reason. Once we had a DS that seemed to eat away at the DSDs and at least one of them became convinced, quite wrongly, that DH was giving everything to him (financially) and nothing to them - a thought clearly put in her head by her mother, because we never discussed financial affairs with the children, ever.

As I said before, I really do hope it's different for you, but I think you should be prepared in case it doesn't.

Let's try that last sentence again:

I hope it turns out differently for you, but I think you should be prepared in case it doesn't.

Please get her dad to email her back and tell her he cares for her, and that what her mother says isn't true. And to apologise for being absent for so long.

I do not agree that the level of contact should be decided by the child's main carer when that child is 14. It should be decided by the child, and although I can see that you don't want to disrupt this child's life, it might do her self esteem the world of good to know that you will welcome any level of contact she feels that she would like.

Humpty I'm a SM too and would just like to say you sound a very caring person and that your priorities are spot on with wanting what's best for your DSD. I know of some SM's who are so focused on their own DC and put little or no effort into the well being of their DSC. (I always wonder how they would feel if it were their DC were ever in the same position?)

I met my DH when DSS was 6, he's now 21 and recently said that 'I was more of a mum to him than his own mum ever was'. Privately and sadly I think this is true, but even now I still have to reassure him that, however she's behaving she still loves him, in her own way - not easy when she won't make any effort to have a relationship with him.

It does get easier as they get older and 4 years will go by quicker than you can imagine now. Hopefully if your DH is consistent in his contact, however distant that has to be, she will eventually take control of her own relationship with your DH and his ex will have little to do with it.

Good luck.

Hi all
Many thanks for all your responses. I just feel like it seems hopeless for dh to try to "explain" to dsd the truth when ex has been so poisonous.
He has now written back to her and explained that he realised that she would have found it difficult to say to him if she was uncomfortable in her situation and out of her depth. He apologised to her for making her think that he didn't want her. He explained that we were led to believe that dsd wanted to have same name etc as her step family and was willing to give his permission. He also explained that although he has not had contact with her for many years that he has always thought about her and wondered how she was etc...
He has said that if ex choses to accept his offer of giving permission for name changes etc it doesn't mean that he doesn't want any contact.
He also apologised for dsd becoming involved in the situation and explained that he hoped she realised that any anger that ex has is for him and not for dsd.
He said that he hoped that she realised that once she is adult and can make her own decisions, that she knows that she is always welcome to be more involved with him but that he understands if she wants to wait until she is ready but we will always be here. In the mean time he is happy for her to contact him within the means that ex has laid out and that he is very happy that he is in contact with her and is glad that she found him.

I don't know what difference it will make, but at least he has tried. I read it through with him and we tried realy hard to make sure it is about him and not slagging off ex, which is really hard, but I refuse for us to be dragged down to her low levels and nastiness.

Will watch this space and see what happens!

yangymac I see what you're saying. Just cos the ex says so is not a good enough reason to do something. But unless dsd does what she is told, ex will punish her and I don't want her to be punished for speaking to dh.
Dh is fully co=operating with CSA and is paying what is due. And has said that he wants nothing more to do with ex, will not stoop to her level and will not be drawn into arguments. I think if she wants to be a poisonous cow then taht's her business but we won't be drawn into it.
I think the best we can do is to say that we are interested in dsd and here for her when she needs/wants us etc... The trouble is, it's very difficult to answer her questions about the past etc when we have no idea what shit she has been told already. Suffice to say dh and ex's break up was not pretty at all, it doesn't really cover it just to say that "we didn't love eachother anymore". It fucked him up for a long time and I think he had good reason to want to stay well away from ex although obviously that was wrong from the point of view of dsd.
So the way i see it, is unless we follow ex's rules, which is to only communicate via occasional email then there isn't anything else to do except to go to court to gain access etc which will be messy and open a whole can of worms we don't want to as well as causing a ton of trouble for dsd.
That's why I don't see what else we can do? Ex and the step dad are not happy about dh being on the scene at all in any shape or form and their punishments are standard, but cruel for a kid who isn't actually doing anything wrong. Stopping pocket money/grounding her/ taking away laptop/ taking away internet/ taking away mobile etc... All fair punishments don't get me wrong but really hurtful to a 14 year old

yangymac sorry, just read your other post. FWIW I looked up the whole deedpoll situation and it seems taht when ex tried to change dsd's name the first time was when she was 3 and you are right she made no attempt to contact dh, through his family, csa, past employers etc.... therefore was able to change her name for common use, but not in a way that is acceptable to passport agency who needs parental consent from both parents. This is where the trouble started. But apparelntly if ex went back to deedpoll, with dsd as a teenager whose opinion could be sought, she would have had a lot less trouble.
As you have said, legally the interests of the child are paramount. And so they should be with the parents too... but sadly this isn't the case here. Ex seems hell bent on trying to get to dh through dsd which is so wrong and I am desparetley sad about, to the point of tears and outrage on her behalf.
with regards to contact, ex will only consider letting dh meet dsd if she is there to supervise and there's no way dh will agree especially after all this because he knows ex won't be able to sit quietly, she will be raging and it will be really ugly.

further update
Now ex made a complete u-turn and says she wants dh to meet dsd asap because apparently dsd is having problems at school and ex says it's cos she is pre-occupied with the whole situation. now I don't doubt that for a second, especially because it has all been handled badly on all sides but ffs, what now.
Ex seems to think that if dsd and dh meet then dsd will settle down again and all the problems will stop... She is so naive, meeting will only open a whole new can of worms.
Ex also blaming dh saying that he is not showing enough interest in dsd. I am so tired of all this. What sort of relationship is a 40 year old man going to have with a 14 year old girl who is basically a stranger? What is he supposed to talk to her about apart from generalities like how's school, what are you doing on the weekend? did you watch eastenders last night?
DH is a man of few words at the best of times and does not engage me in hours of meaningful conversation never mind teenage girls.
any advise very gratefully recieved!