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Sanity check on handling a Child Arrangements order over Christmas

50 replies

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 00:18

I’m hoping for some perspective from people who understand how family court situations actually play out in real life, because I’m genuinely torn about what the right thing to do is.

I’m a dad to a 9-year-old. There’s been a final child arrangements order in place for a few years now. My child lives with the other parent, I have alternate weekend overnight contact, school holidays are meant to be split equally, and Christmas Day is specifically ordered to be spent with me. The order also says we should agree times where my work commitments require and communicate civilly.

Communication has always been difficult. Over time I’ve learned that if I don’t agree quickly to proposed changes, things escalate very fast. When I’ve tried to explain myself or smooth things over in the past, it usually just creates more arguments or gets used against me later, so I’ve become much more cautious and tend to stick closely to the wording of the order.

Recently, during one of my scheduled weekends, my child wasn’t made available. I was told late on that contact wouldn’t be happening. There was no agreement from me to change things and no safeguarding issue raised. I didn’t escalate it at the time, but it did worry me. The missed weekend contact appeared to be linked to the wider disagreement about the Christmas arrangements, rather than any issue specific to that weekend.

After that, I contacted the other parent to try to agree the Christmas holidays in advance. The dates I was sent included Christmas Day, even though the order is clear that Christmas Day is with me. I replied calmly, pointed that out, and said I’m happy to agree any equal split of the remaining days that works around the days I’m working, as the order allows. I also said I’m open to flexibility if we can genuinely agree it.

That’s where things really escalated. The reply I got said there would be no negotiation unless I agreed to certain terms, that I was trying to impose my preferences, and that if I didn’t agree then contact would be suspended. I was also told that if I turned up for contact anyway it would be treated as intimidation and used as evidence. There’s no new court order and no safeguarding concerns.

There have also been other issues over time that I haven’t gone into detail about, including a school day not being made available when contact should have taken place, and communication that goes beyond what I’d consider civil despite the order saying we should communicate that way. I’ve deliberately not listed everything or quoted messages, but it does form part of why I’m worried that giving in now just leads to the same problems repeating.

As things stand now, there’s a real chance I won’t see my child at all over Christmas, including on Christmas Day, despite what the order says. To make things more complicated, if I do exercise Christmas Day contact as ordered, it would mean travelling a couple of hours each way on Christmas Day itself. I’m willing to do that if it means seeing my child and sticking to the order, but it adds to the pressure and makes me question whether I should just give in now to avoid missing out altogether.

My family are very worried and keep telling me to just agree so I don’t lose Christmas, even if it means compromising now. I understand why they feel that way emotionally, but they don’t really understand how family court works or how agreeing under pressure can quickly turn into a precedent later on. That’s what’s making me second-guess myself.

At the moment I’ve been keeping my replies short and factual, not engaging with threats, and sticking closely to the order. I’m not trying to punish anyone or escalate things, I’m just trying not to make the situation worse or undermine myself long-term if this ever ended up back in front of a judge.

What I can’t work out is whether holding the line like this is actually the sensible thing to do, or whether pragmatically giving in now just to preserve Christmas contact is the better option, even if it causes problems later. I’d really appreciate hearing how this kind of situation is usually viewed in reality, rather than how it feels emotionally in the moment.

(I know only a court can decide - I’m just looking for general perspective. All names and identifying details removed.)

OP posts:
orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 09:43

Sorry if this has already been explained.

The mother does not celebrate Christmas. Contact is every other week, which is a typical arrangement.

OP posts:
ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 09:44

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 09:43

Sorry if this has already been explained.

The mother does not celebrate Christmas. Contact is every other week, which is a typical arrangement.

No, you didn't explain, I inferred. Thanks for clarifying, people might respond to you properly now.

What contact is she offering this week exactly?

Sprogonthetyne · 22/12/2025 09:46

So the other parent does almost all the day to day work of raising the child and you get every Christmas? And the privilege of being able to pick and choose holiday contact around your work?

I can definitely see why your ex isn't happy with this arrangement. They're going about it the wrong way and should be going back to court to get the order changed, but I understand their frustration, as the current setup is very unfair. How did that arrangement ever get past a judge?

ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 09:52

Sprogonthetyne · 22/12/2025 09:46

So the other parent does almost all the day to day work of raising the child and you get every Christmas? And the privilege of being able to pick and choose holiday contact around your work?

I can definitely see why your ex isn't happy with this arrangement. They're going about it the wrong way and should be going back to court to get the order changed, but I understand their frustration, as the current setup is very unfair. How did that arrangement ever get past a judge?

Jesus Christ
does the average mumsnetter know no people who don't celebrate Christmas? He had already clarified she doesn't celebrate it. Why would she want him on Christmas Day when it's just an ordinary Wednesday to her?!

Sprogonthetyne · 22/12/2025 09:55

ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 09:52

Jesus Christ
does the average mumsnetter know no people who don't celebrate Christmas? He had already clarified she doesn't celebrate it. Why would she want him on Christmas Day when it's just an ordinary Wednesday to her?!

Dude, he clarified literally 3 minutes before I posted. I finished reading the thread before he added the drip-feed

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 10:02

I previously exercised flexibility to reduce conflict. That is no longer effective, so I am following the court order as written.

The position on this forum to me appears to place the mums parental discretion above the court order, which is not how I believed arrangements are structured and what was in the best interest of my child. I thought the order was there to protect the child and keep consistency and stability. I’m open to being wrong

OP posts:
ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 10:41

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 10:02

I previously exercised flexibility to reduce conflict. That is no longer effective, so I am following the court order as written.

The position on this forum to me appears to place the mums parental discretion above the court order, which is not how I believed arrangements are structured and what was in the best interest of my child. I thought the order was there to protect the child and keep consistency and stability. I’m open to being wrong

You aren't wrong, but you posted something that riled up the women on mumsnet without any explanation and led to loads of projection and assumptions. It almost seemed like you did it on purpose...
What contact is she proposing over the next week?

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 11:08

I can’t disclose private details. What has been proposed is not in line with the court order and has included personal insults.

I understand the frustration expressed here, but frustration is not a valid excuse for making assumptions or reacting in that way. I’m asking for clarity and opinion on how this should be approached in principle, with the aim of what’s best for my daughter.

Should I default to the court order to prevent long term conflict, or continue accommodating demands in the hope of short term peace?

OP posts:
Randomchat · 22/12/2025 11:15

Only you know your ex's personality so it's hard for us to comment.

If your dd is still young and you have years ahead of you then probably you need to stand firm and force contact as per the court order. Or else you set yourself up for years of this. Of course if you go down that road then you can't easily make changes yourself if your situation changes. You both need to stick rigidly to the order.

Your ex might react badly, we don't know her. It is very rare for a parent to be arrested or for a child to be taken from one parent to live with the other as a result of not following a CAO. It is hard to enforce if the other party is determined not to.

If dd is 11, 12, heading to the stage where she can speak up for herself then maybe you move more into negotiation territory. So long as your dd doesn't end up stuck in the middle.

You're right of course, the court order should be followed above either parent's wishes. One parent shouldn't be able to just ignore it as they see fit.

ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 11:30

My advice remains the same as above. Enforcing a CAO is stressful, difficult and not always successful. If returning to court can be avoided then it should be. However if she's decided not to allow you to have Christmas then it seems worth doing, as that's really significant and will impact on him negatively. Nothing will happen before Christmas of course, so if you can agree any contact I would do so, or risk not seeing him at all.

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 11:34

Thank you, that’s a fair response and broadly aligns with my thinking. My remaining concern is whether enforcement would realistically result in being equally rigid on both sides, given the history and existing paper trail.

To update, and under significant pressure from my family, I have contacted the mother regarding Christmas and agreed to her terms. I’m currently waiting for confirmation that she will honour that agreement.

OP posts:
FerriswheelsKissesandLilacs · 22/12/2025 11:46

Sorry for the responses you've had, Mumsnet hates separated fathers. In fact, men in general.

I think on this occasion you should give your ex what she wants so you can see your child and organise returning to court in the New Year. Make sure you have it in writing that she is refusing to abide by the existing court order.

I would also be prepared for the child to live with you, especially as they get older and are able to set the Mum of without your help.

Mumofoneandone · 22/12/2025 11:50

Not been through the court system, but my understanding is what the court has decreed is what needs to happen.
Stick to the court order, keep records of everything she is doing to break it - particularly refusing contact unless you agree to her demands. Go back to court, either for a variation or for full custody etc - whatever is most appropriate.
Good luck!

Buscake · 22/12/2025 12:20

ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 09:10

That's a lot of assumptions with no evidence. OP said she has the festivals that she celebrates. Shared Christmas and birthdays are a basic element of CAOs are not something that parties would need to argue over as no judge would arbitrarily assign all Christmases to one parent if they both celebrated! And if the mother wants to change the CAO she must go back to court, not unilaterally decide to change it. Would you say anything of what you projected about the mother about the father if he decided to change the CAO himself?
Why do you assume the child wants to spend Christmas with his mother? If the mother is Jewish she may treat Christmas Day like any normal day.

Edited

I think actually it’s you who has made a lot of assumptions. I’m trying to get the OP to see things from the child’s point of view rather than focusing on his ‘rights’. I didn’t mention Christmas or birthdays…

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 12:30

Buscake · 22/12/2025 12:20

I think actually it’s you who has made a lot of assumptions. I’m trying to get the OP to see things from the child’s point of view rather than focusing on his ‘rights’. I didn’t mention Christmas or birthdays…

Thank you for your comment Buscake. It would be helpful if you could explain what you see as being in my child’s best interests in this situation, and why.

OP posts:
ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 12:31

Buscake · 22/12/2025 12:20

I think actually it’s you who has made a lot of assumptions. I’m trying to get the OP to see things from the child’s point of view rather than focusing on his ‘rights’. I didn’t mention Christmas or birthdays…

I see nothing in anything OP has said that suggests he doesn't see things from his child's pov or any suggestion that the mother agreed to something she didn't want just to get the CAO agreed. Where did you read that, if it wasn't an assumption you made?

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 13:39

Update: The mother has accepted the arrangements, although not very directly. This doesn’t resolve the underlying issues and they are sure to resurface in the new year, but for now arrangements are settled and Christmas can go ahead calmly for everyone. Thanks all for your perspectives 🙂

OP posts:
Wishitsnows · 22/12/2025 13:53

At least you agree that is in the child’s best interests that the other parent raises then the majority of the time and you just see them every other weekend and the holidays you choose so not really doing much parenting.

Randomchat · 22/12/2025 13:54

I'm glad. I hope you have a lovely Christmas and can think about what you're going to do next with plenty of time.

ShawnaMacallister · 22/12/2025 15:08

Wishitsnows · 22/12/2025 13:53

At least you agree that is in the child’s best interests that the other parent raises then the majority of the time and you just see them every other weekend and the holidays you choose so not really doing much parenting.

You know they have been to court right? The care arrangements are agreed by the mother. We can't have it both ways. If the child's mother wanted him to have more care if the child then he would have more care of the child. People simultaneously want to berate the man for being a part time parent but also want to say the mother should have the right to change the arrangements because she's the main parent.

Snoken · 22/12/2025 15:43

Maybe the reason why this happened is because your DD is now 9 and able to express her own wishes to her mother who is clumsily trying to advocate for her. It could perhaps be a good opportunity to revise the order to one where your DD has a bit more say. She is spending the vast majority of her time with her mother so it wouldn't be strange at this point if she is unhappy being away from her for half of the holidays.

Snoken · 22/12/2025 15:45

@ShawnaMacallister "People simultaneously want to berate the man for being a part time parent but also want to say the mother should have the right to change the arrangements because she's the main parent."

I think this is more to do with that the order seems to be heavily favoured towards the dad. He gets every Christmas and his contact time during the holidays have to be worked around his work. The mother just has to take what's left basically. Seems unfair when she does all of the day to day childcare.

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 17:05

These assumptions about motives, fairness, or what my child must want is just speculation and is no longer relevant to the topic.

This has been discussed exhaustively. Reframing the situation at this point, while the matter is paused, isn’t helpful.

I’ll provide an update after Christmas and New Year, or if there are any further developments.

OP posts:
HuskyNew · 22/12/2025 18:36

orangesky223 · 22/12/2025 09:36

Can we keep communications to what is relevant.

The arrangements are set out in the final court order, agreed by both parties and approved by the court. The question is whether I should follow the order as written

How long ago was all this?
it’s one thing to assign Christmas away from home for a young child , but what about what the CHILD wants when they get older. Looks like this court agreement has reached the end of its life to me.

so yes, if she breaks it then you can take her back to court. But honestly is that really in the best interests of the child?

ShawnaMacallister · 23/12/2025 05:11

HuskyNew · 22/12/2025 18:36

How long ago was all this?
it’s one thing to assign Christmas away from home for a young child , but what about what the CHILD wants when they get older. Looks like this court agreement has reached the end of its life to me.

so yes, if she breaks it then you can take her back to court. But honestly is that really in the best interests of the child?

The mother doesn't celebrate Christmas. Why would you think a 9 year old would prefer to stay with a parent who doesn't do Christmas than with the parent who does?

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