Council has different rules for private home owners than itself?!

[Emilymaitlisfangirl]

Afternoon everyone. I'm not sure whether this is better in property or legal, but think this is possibly technical.

I have owned my grade 2 (NO STAR) listed home since 2005. In 2010 i was served an enforcement notice because the previous owners changed timbers ash windows to upvc. I was going to change the windows anyway but not to timber which was very expensive. The council insisted upon single glazed, citing that in 1860 no one had double glazed so it was not in keeping. This means heat retention is crap and I've had to pay for secondary glazing (or pay in the form of bills). Also, The roof needed fixing. They made us buy very expensive tiles. This is now 2013 and 2018 respectively.

I have just discovered that the council owned properties on the street that are the same as mine have had double glazed windows installed and bog standard tiles. The premium I paid to keep aligned with council policy must be at least £15k.

I want to complain, but honestly I also want to be compensated, or fort he council to have to change everything they have done.

I had to take out loans for the extra I had to pay. I'm so upset.

Are there any thoughts on this?

Of course it’s relevant if the owners are the ones making the rules.
How can they not comply with their own legislation.
Sad face Mail and see if anyone legal wants to take on the fight

Normally I’m not a rules for the sake of it type. But the rules around listed houses are for a reason. If the reasoning now makes no sense ie we need tk conserve energy more than looking in keeping, then they need changing.
Tax payer money is wasted regardless. At least this has a purpose ( either upholding the original reasoning of the policy or demonstrating the need for change).

You are getting a rough ride here @Emilymaitlisfangirl and unfairly too.
Absolutely the same rules must be followed by everyone for these type of buildings - it doesn't matter if a local council can't afford to follow it's own rules. If the council couldn't afford to follow it's own GL rules then what they should have done is to sell the buildings and buy/build replacement properties at a different location. Councils can be very underhand about this type of stuff because they think people won't notice or if they do they'll just shout them down and brand the complainers as unreasonable troublemakers.

Was planning permission ever asked for by the council to renovate these properties? This will be easily seen on the council's planning portals.

If they didn't then they have a problem don't they? You can raise an official complaint and take it further to the relevant government dept.

If they did and oversaw the whole process themselves and granted planning permission for themselves by themselves then that's a conflict of interest. At the very least a different council should have looked at the application and made the decision - that's what happens here.
I'm presuming that PP wasn't obtained or requested because you probably would have been notified as a near neighbour?
It is not your problem if this ends up costing the council money - they should have followed their own rules.

I agree with this advice - the only thing that I’d add would be to contact your local councillor if you don’t get a response from the planning or conservation departments. Focus on what permissions were granted for the council-owned properties to have this work done, not what you had to do, and whether the work was compliant with the council policies/ planning legislation.

I’m surprised by the number of people telling you not to bother about it - usually people are quick to criticise local councils not following the rules!

If people are concerned about the council using public money to deal with any enforcement action, then perhaps the council should have considered any cost of non compliance when it carried out the work?

Can’t blame you, OP, for wanting action over this.

I pay my council tax, right? I also pay for all other taxes that are levied. It's not personal to anyone who is paying their taxes.

I don't like being treated differently, and I don't like when it costs me £1000s.

That's really it. I don't wish for the council to be poor, I don't wish for my neighbours to also have badly insulated homes. I have never said any of this anywhere. Mean-spirited people tend to judge others as so, and that is what we have here.

For everyone who thinks it is fine to be treated unfairly and for this to cost £1000s, I hope it happens to you many times in the future as it's no big deal!

Oooh, lovely point.

I think an anti-homeowner sentiment might be impacting this thread. I'll admit i didn't expect it on a legal forum. Maybe it came up in active. The risks we run.

@DeafLeppard
Absolutely my thinking too. I'd make a complaint in this situation. I can only surmise that the pp's saying leave it are council employees/councillors themselves and well used to the unhandedness that goes on in our local councils that we pay for and vote for?

We live in a listed building and this year we were given listed building approval to change single glazing to double.

Perhaps a better result would the OP being reimbursed for her windows and given permission to have double glazing - LIKE HER COUNCIL OWNED NEIGHBOURS.

OP I sympathise. We applied twice for double glazing for our listed property and were turned down both times, even though we said we'd have wooden frames and superslim double glazing. It's crazy when you see how energy targets are pushed down everyone's throats and how rental properties are having to hit increasingly high EPC ratings.

You'd think some common sense would be in order when it comes to allowing listed property owners to improve energy efficiency, but no, can't have that.

So glad we moved from that property, and I'll never touch another listed place again.

i get your frustration, OP.

Councils are unfortunately a law unto themselves, they always have been. Challenging them is expensive financially, emotionally, financially and time-wise. They are complete dinosaurs with the own in house legal teams. They will bury you - I’ve got personal experience. It will be a war of attrition - it always is.

I would be furious too OP. I would write to my MP. He/she in turn will ask for an explanation from the council.

Please keep us updated!

Would it be worth speaking to your MP/Councillor about the double standards and see what they suggest before paying for legal advice

When did the Council undertake the work on the Council properties?

You'd probably be best served by going to the papers with this.

As a side note, the whole concept of listing buildings should be scrapped. We live in the present not the past, and it's more important for people alive now to be comfortable and happy, than fashion choices of dead people to be preserved.

Are the council owned properties listed or not? You seem to be avoiding that question.

She answered that at 19:03 yesterday. Are you utterly incapable of reading and comprehending? If so, you shouldn't be on the Legal forum.

Surely it’s possible that the councils application to the planning department contained a more persuasive argument for having double glazing than the OPs application. They could also have proposed different or better products. I’d be really curious to know the exact details of both applications. It sounds dodgey but it’s not necessarily.

There's a lot of unknowns here. Did the council apply for consent for the change of windows? If they did, were the same rules applied? If so, was there some justification for using double glazing that wasn't present in your case?

Basically, you need to do a lot more digging if you want to take this further.

Ooh, hark at you Mr or Mrs Perfect.

I humbly beg for forgiveness, otherwise my life simply isn't worth living anymore.

It might be a bit late now but why didnt your Solicitor pick up that the vendors didnt have listed building consent OR did the vendors not provide the correct information?

Are the houses being let to social housing tenants? If so, I wonder if it's a case of the housing dept doing the work to meet sustainability policies as part of upgrading all their housing stock. Listing/building conservation takes priority over carbon reduction in this situation but the housing dept may not have realised the houses are listed. Double glazing will always require Listed Building Consent even if planning permission isn't required, and the application should always be referred to the planning committee so the decision is taken transparently. I would start by looking at the properties on your council website to see what has been granted permission and then complain formally. It's actually a criminal offence to do works to a listed building without consent, as the works can't be undone e.g. Once historic material is damaged or lost it can't be reinstated exactly the same.

OP, putting secondary glazing in your listed home is probably better than double glazed windows. If the council are putting upvc windows and insulation in the ones they own they will probably end up with damp houses.

look after your listed house which needs to breathe and you will be the winner in the end.