DH was incorrectly told he was being charged for a crime.

[Amae]

Hi all,

looking for some advice:

DH was arrested on suspicion of violent disorder (was not involved at all), interviewed and released. A few days later he was called by a police officer who informed him that the CPS were charging him and the officer needed to hand-deliver a charge sheet for court.

DH and officer agreed a time and date for him to deliver the charge sheet but the officer never arrived. After numerous calls from my husband to try and contact him, he eventually answered and informed him he'd been 'mistakenly charged' and to completely disregard any previous communications.

My husband runs his own business and we have young children, for weeks we were under the impression he was being charged for a crime he did not commit- the amount of stress this caused for both of us was absolutely huge.

Worth mentioning that when he was arrested, this was after our family home had been dawn raided in the early hours.

DH keeps getting emails about making a claim about being 'mistreated by the police' so we are curious as to whether we have any grounds to persue this or is it a complete waste of time?

Thankyou for taking the time to read all of this, and advice is greatly appreciated.

There's no confusion here, thank you.

"Having a scrap is a pub" isn't an offense you can be charged with. 'Violent disorder' is what a group of people involved in a scrap in a pub might be charged with, especially if there wasn't strong enough evidence to charge them individually with common assault, ABH, etc. See below

The offence occurs when three or more persons present together use or threaten unlawful violence so that their conduct, when taken together, would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for their personal safety.

It can occur in public or on private property. Examples include violence at a public event such as football violence, pub or nightclub brawls that could cause risk or fear to bystanders or violent protest where objects are thrown or fires are set.

The emails about being mistreated by police are just spam. I get them all the time, and I have never been arrested…

I’d ignore them. Don’t make them part of your decision-making process.

@Amae I can totally believe this

I had a professional contact who went through something similar

The CPS took it as far as they could and he had to tell his work because it was likely to get in the paper - a fairly prominent incident in a pub and he just happened to be in the same pub! He would've lost his job as well.

It actually got as far as being listed for trial and then his charge got thrown out. I think it took them ages to sort through the other guys and then they finally realised that he wasn't involved and wasn't known to any of them.

It was a horrendously stressful time, and he did look at taking legal action but decided it wasn't worth it.

It might be something that no win no fee firm would take? But I think you have to prove a loss, and even a few months stress didn't count in the case of the guy I knew.

You still seem confused but thanks for your input.

That's seems extremely similar to what happened to my husband but thankfully, it didn't get as far as that! Poor guy. my husband had the same thing where he said it would be in the paper etc.

Some of the responses on here are so naive and it's as if people don't think the police/cps make mistakes so therefore I must be lying - they very clearly do make mistakes.

given your point above and some of the other points that have been made, we are just going to leave it now and move on.

This happened to my husband. But it was a house robbery and stabbing in the next town which is 50 minutes away! (DH cant even drive because of a disability) We even had doorbell footage of my husband going to my car at the time of the alleged robbery! He was charged and realised on bail! This was because the victims used to work with my husband and said it was him from his work boots (again luckily we had upgraded the work boots and no longer had them) they still took all my husbands dark clothing and his workboots for testing and actually put him in a dry cell with plastic bags over his hands. Only thing we ever heard after was a no further action letter! It was the worst 10 weeks of our life's and we had panic attacks everytime the door bell went off! It does happen and it is the most stressful thing ever

I'm not confused about anything. You said he was arrested, and later told he was going to be charged, with Violent Disorder, as he was suspected of being involved in a 'brawl' at a pub.

I told you it was a bit dramatic to be planning to close his business and for you to be worrying about raising the kids on your own because even if he was bang to rights, there's no way someone with no priors is going to prison on a Violent Conduct charge, which your husband's solicitor would have told him.

What do you think I'm confused about?

He'd have also told him, after sitting in the interview and noting that the police had presented zero evidence of your husband committing violent disorder, that there was zero chance the CPS would agree to charge him.

Nobody is suggesting that the police don't make mistakes, but so little of what you've said makes sense that multiple people with knowledge of these matters have pointed out that there are details mistaken or missing 🤷🏻‍♂️

Why would you be assuming a long prison sentence for violent disorder? Unless he’s out on licence or has a long string of convictions, even if by some chance he was convicted (any defence lawyer would point out that there is zero evidence of him actually fighting - just being there at the incident so acquittal would be likely) he would have been unlikely to get prison and even if he did it would be a couple of months or so if he opted for magistrates court trial where the max sentence they can pass is 6 months.

Also violent disorder is the legal term for a scrap in the pub by the way.

I would leave it alone but sadly I’m a coward. Never mess with the police or HM customs revenue !

You could speak to a reputable solicitor and see what they think. It might be helpful to understand how such a serious mistake was made.

The police are entitled to make an arrest while making further enquiries if they have reasonable grounds of suspicion. They may try and argue they had reasonable grounds initially though a good solicitor may try and argue otherwise. Just been male and wearing black in the vicinity of a fight….is that reasonable grounds? Did a witness at the scene say he’d been part of it? Did he pub have cctv which could be viewed? All that sort of stuff would be taken into accO7nt.

however the police should not be letting it drag on for an unreasonable timeframe and that’s more likely where they will come unstuck.

your dh may be getting emails if he’s googled anything like unlawful arrest.

id talk to a solicitor for sure.

What does your husband want to do? Given your update about his health issues I'd be really concerned about the impact a complaint would have on his health.

What do you want to achieve from a complaint? It's shocking that the officer didn't let him know.

Speak to a solicitor and get some sound legal advice , rather than listen to mumsnet "experts"
The police clearly didnt do their job properly

I'd just curse the ground that the officers involved walj on for a few months, then put it behind me.

Even if you make an official complaint, it's highly unlikely likely the IOPC will find in your favour.

No police force is carrying out a raid for a fight at a pub. What is your DH involved in that he’s not telling you OP? That’s what I’d be asking…

I wonder why they conducted a search of his home? What evidence of a bar fight did they hope to find?

The clothing he wore, probably.

Worrying about prison seems way catastrophing when you know he didn't do anything and so there couldnt be any evidence of him doing anything

Have you missed some information out?

It sounds very stressful and your DH appears to have been unlucky being in the wrong place at the wrong time wearing a mask.

The Police can arrest anyone they suspect has been involved in a crime and that includes dawn raids. They clearly suspected your husband of the offence and it's easy to see why. He was present at a violent incident wearing a mask.

The main problem seems to have been poor communication but I'm not sure that would warrant anything other than apology.

The Police can and do arrest suspects, they have to be able to do that to investigate and question. Some suspects are charged and go to trial. Not everyone is found guilty. That's what the justice system is for and the rule of innocent until proved guilty.

I'd be grateful that the Police didn't charge him so you didn't have to go through a trial. I'd also be telling him to be careful about the places he visits and the company he keeps. He may be completely innocent but he may be socialising with people's who are not to have been suspected so long.

It happened during when lots of riots were happening after the Southport murders- at that time, they were handing out big sentences for public disorder, the average sentence around that point seemed 6 months - 2 years

I've literally not left any information out- neither of us have had run ins with the police before so when he was told he was being charged we were confused and frightened about what would happen. As I mentioned in a post a moment ago, the incident happened around the same time as there were all the riots happening after the Southport murders and it just seemed at the time that they were keen to charge people with violent disorder and hand them a heavy sentence.

We were probably naive to some extent but to be told he was being charged with a crime he didn't commit was really bloody frightening for us.

Violent disorder has a maximum sentence of 5 years. A prison sentence is always a possibility even if remote. Lots of factors can play into sentencing. No experienced defence lawyer would say there was zero chance of going to prison, unless indicated by the judge or magistrate, just highly unlikely as they would be aware of the vagaries of the legal system. The law is a lottery. Look at Lucy Connelly. She had no history of offending. She put up a racist post which was deemed to be inciting racial hatred and removed a short time later. She wasn’t present at any of the riots yet got 31 months. She even pleaded guilty and despite having the usual women’s get out clause of avoiding prison by saying she had dependent children was given 31 months so there is never ‘zero chance’. It probably wouldn’t have happened on the basis of one tweet if it hadn’t been connected to a high profile event such as Southport. I think there were quite a few other people with no criminal record who got prison sentences arising from Southport. They were being made an example of.

Unfair to mock the OP which is what you were doing.

The Police can arrest someone under reasonable suspicion and you would only really have a case if you could show that that suspicion wasn’t reasonable which can be difficult. With regard to him being wrongly told he was being charged I think you would struggle to sue. I think you would only have a case if you could prove some financial loss. We’re not America and we don’t tend to pay out for upset feelings like they do.

I'd persue a claim. Presumably you've incurred solicitors fees? They need to reimburse you for them.

You can’t be ‘wrongly accused’. You can be accused of doing something and then found to have not done the thing.

A scrap in a pub IS classed as violent disorder though. I’m not getting why someone with Lupus would even entertain walking into a pub where a fight was going on and think a face mask would protect him. I suspect your DH was not being completely honest here and that the charges have been dropped for lack of evidence that would ensure a guilty verdict.
Does he realise that if he does decide to pursue a claim against the police, it would be a civil claim and the threshold for something being proven is far lower than in a criminal case? He would have to be 100% certain that it was absolutely a case of the wrong place at the wrong time and that there is no evidence such as CCTV that could imply his guilt.