Threatened with small claims court 5 months after selling house?

[lmw850]

We completed in our house at the end of May. It was a difficult process as after our buyers survey results were released, they asked for a £20k discount.

I pushed back on a lot of points as ultimately the survey was a farce. It said that we needed a whole new roof beyond other things.

Buyer sent a roofer round & he confirmed it needed some repairs but not a re-roof. We paid for this, along with various other bits that the buyer asked for. We ended up paying around £1000 for the repairs that they requested.

One of the many points raised in the survey was there was a bit of damp on the ceiling kitchen. I advised the buyer that we had recently noticed a small stain as the silicon from the shower had completely come away, however we repaired this and noticed no further issues.

Today I have received an email from my solicitor to state that the leak was bigger than we knew and that the kitchen ceiling has fallen through. A plumber stated that it was from a pipe under the shower and had been leaking for a long time. The buyer is now wanting to take us to a small claims court.

Where do I stand if A - I didn’t know that the leak was as bad as it was and B - buyer has lived there for almost 5 months?

Surely it is the buyers responsibility to follow up on issues raised in the survey, like they did with the roof report?

Who’s to say that the ceiling wouldn’t have collapsed when we were still living there if the leak had been happening for a while?

I’m sorry that this has happened to them and I hope they have insurance to fix it, but what would they be trying to claim against me?

Thanks! I’ll ask for it to be deleted

She’s right. The buyer got the survey, they could have decided to investigate the source further but they chose not to. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. Fundamental principle of the sale. They should have looked into it before completing. Too late now.

The legal situation is simple. Did you represent the situation i.e. say that the leak was just silicone when it wasn't? Possibly. Was this fraudulent ie you knowingly lied, negligent, you didn't have a reasonable belief or innocent, you honestly believed what you said. If innocent she, broadly, has no recourse. If fraudulent or negligent and she relied on your answer then she might have a case.

As of yet, I haven’t had any particulars. Just what’s happened and ‘it appears that the seller didn’t repair the shower although the seller confirmed the repair had taken place’ and that ‘it’s the buyers intention to pursue the matter through the small claims court’.

We did of course repair the shower to fix what we thought to be the issue, however it seems we were wrong & there was something bigger going on that we were unaware of

I would be very careful about anything you say to them at this point.

they need to show that you had some knowledge of the situation and actively tried to deceive them. Your attempts to explain this away like a rational person could be used against you.

there are sometimes people that do things like cover up black mold with paint or rotting foundations with paint or plaster and hope the sale completes before anyone notices.

they did their survey. You negotiated repairs as part of the sale. This should be their problem now. It’s part of being a homeowner. Just wait until court to say anything. That is stressful, but will be better for you.

They also didn’t believe me when I told them that the roof didn’t need replacing (I got a roofer out to check when we saw the survey & he confirmed what needed doing). Off the back of that, they arranged their own roofer to come and assess, who agreed with what I had already told them. I ended up getting the fixes done with their roofer to give them peace of mind.

If they had asked me to investigate the leak, I would have done that too but it was dropped as soon as I advised what we had done.

Booooo! Now I will never k

Very true. Recently had a very small leak from en-suite to living room below. The plumber initially thought the issue was due to the sealant needing replacing in the shower but despite spraying it with water couldn’t replicate the leak to the living room below though said it needs replacing as he thinks there is a tiny leak. In the end he had to remove part of the ceiling below and found the leak causing the issue in the sink waste water pipe - he said it’s been caused by a loose part and would have been leaking since the en-suite was installed 7 years who. I’ve lived here almost 3 years. Clearly I wouldn’t expect the previous owners to pay despite the leak being there for 7 years as it only become apparent a couple of months ago!

So for me the plumber says there are two issues. A tiny leak which hadn’t caused issues due to the sealant needing replacing which we’ve done. And another tiny slow leak which has been there for years but as it’s so small only caused issues a couple of months ago. Obviously not the fault of the previous owners and I’m can’t see how a surveyor would have picked it up given there were no signs until a couple of months ago when the built up water caused issues,

Opps I didn't mean to post that. Was going to write Booo. Now I will never know the exact amount. But then decided that was pointless.

Absolutely this, they were aware of it from their survey, not your issue.

Thank you all for your advice / opinions. I can’t say I’m not worried, I’ve never been presented with anything like this before. However your comments have made me feel slightly better.

I’m hoping it won’t get as far as the SCC but time will tell.

You need to gather everything you wrote back to them about the survey, but dont respond to the solicitor yet. At the point they make good on the threat to take you to court you can give all the info to your solicitor and they will support you accordingly. It really does depend on
a. What you said at the time (eg “we have noticed something it wrong with the shower and we have fixed that” vs “the leak was because of the fault with the shower and we fixed that”
b. Whether they can prove the ceiling cave in was a result of the original fault.
it does seem they’re just chancing it, to be honest.

The stain on the ceiling… you thought was due to the silicon wearing on the shower door?

goodness, you must have been aware of a lot of water seeping through the shower door to think that this would result in seepage through the floor and create a stain on the room below’s ceiling

OP talks about the silicon in the shower, not on the shower door. I presume she is referring to the sealant between the shower tray and the wall. If that isn't doing its job, it will result in water damage to the room below. I've seen it myself. When the sealant on one of our showers failed, it led to a stain on the kitchen ceiling and some water dripping through into the kitchen. Resealing the shower tray fixed the problem. And when we had the bathroom replaced recently, it was confirmed that there were no other problems - the water damage to the kitchen ceiling had been caused entirely by the failed silicon sealant.

My SIL sold her house not realising that some things needed repairs, but the buyer's surveyor didn't notice them. The buyer's solicitor threatened prosecution in the small claims court, but SIL's solicitor wrote to them saying their surveyor was at fault. He said they were just trying it on. She heard nothing more but she saw the buyer a few times and if looks could kill!

It does not take much water to seep through and stain. We had one from the bath overflow which had not been sealed, very intermittent as few baths deep enough.

I have bought several houses over the years, all as my main residence. I’m not a landlord. I’ve learned to ask multiple questions before buying because anything arising after purchase is my responsibility to fix, be it electricity, damp, the roof, etc. Due diligence is done before completion. The new owner of the house will get nowhere in court.

I'm an electrician, the official forms we use for the EICR (electrical survey) have in the fine print that anything concealed within the fabric of the building is omitted and no liability etc etc. surveyors usually have a similar clause.

The surveyor would not be expected to pick up on the nature or cause of a leak such as this, in the same way as they would not a wiring defect, as most of the time they wouldn't be able to see the cause, or have the technical skill to assess it.

They would simply identify that there was a probable leak, and that remedial action may be required. A surveyors comment is often the tip of the iceberg, but they are not responsible for judging the exact scale of the issue or remediation, they simply serve the purpose of bringing a potential problem to the buyers attention.

They’re trying thier luck, just ignore it. They can tak you to SCC but if they’re in the UK they’ll lose. 5 months is a long enough time for a leak to have occurred whilst they owned the property. Please don’t try to settle out of court this will be what they really want. They’ve not got a leg to stand on. If it’s anyone’s fault it’s the surveyors. Not yours.

So the kitchen ceiling suddenly fell through? Unlikely to be due to the small leak you describe noticing while you were living there months ago isn't it.
For the ceiling to have collapsed like that, they either ignored the return of the damp patch ( and it getting worse) or something much bigger has happened recently, while they have been living in the house.
Let them take you to small claims court.

They did pick it up and advised checking under floorboards. The op said it was probably from the silicone.
So really didnt do a proper check or take the advise.
But proving any of that would be impossible so I bet the op will be fine and not have to pay out .

We bought a house with a similar, unknown, leak.
We would not dream of asking the seller to be responsible. There was no external evidence of the leak and so the sellers couldn’t have done anything.
The buyers are trying it on. Chancers.

Any update op?