Being hassled by STBXH's solicitors

[PurpleJune]

I need some help, have been going through a Non molestation and occupation order against my stbxh because of DV, I've been a litigant in person the whole way through the process. Will try to summarise what's happened so far!

A month ago I went to a without notice hearing for the Non Mol and it was granted for 12 months. The judge said she'd serve my Ex (and me) with the documents that day by email (specifically the order itself, my 1st witness statement and my application). Sure enough a few hours later I was emailed all the documents, meaning it had also been served to my Ex.

I went along to the return hearing to discuss occupation order and continuation of the Non Mol a couple of days later. I was nervous as hell but he didn't turn up, which surprised me. The judge said he was of a mind to make the occupation order looking at the evidence, but was reluctant to do so without the respondent there. I thought to myself "well if the respondent cared so much he would've turned up to defend himself!" But I'd been warned that many judges saw occupation orders as "draconian" and would only do so in exceptional circumstances. So it was decided there would be a few weeks to gather more evidence, get responses from both parties and have a return hearing in a couple of months.

I followed the court's directions - two weeks later I sent my response to the court/my ex, which was a 2nd witness statement and loads of evidence. Two weeks after that he was supposed to respond.

But today - literally the day that his response was due, I get an email from a solicitor saying they're representing my Ex and to give them a bunch of documents that they claimed their client doesn't have - namely the Non Mol itself, my application, and my 1st witness statement. How can this be?? I know that the Non Mol is deemed as "served" even if the applicant doesn't read the email, trashes it etc. So I went back and told this solicitor they could get everything they needed from their client, or failing that from the court. She kept emailing me back and saying that I needed to provide her with copies of these things. I knew that was bullsh*t so just reiterated that they could get them from the court. She emailed me back again, saying it would be "reasonable and standard" for me to provide these, and admitting that she had requested them from the court but there "may be a delay before we receive them".

So my question is - am I right to just ignore this request? I've sent two clearly worded emails already that tell them where they can get the documents. I don't see that it's MY problem that my Ex reckons he wasn't served the documents - that's a problem between him and the court. I don't need to be making things easier for him. His solicitors have admitted that they've asked the court but basically can't wait for their response. What has that got to do with me?? Will the court see me as being obstructive by not giving these documents to his solicitors? I don't know if they're playing silly buggers or whether he genuinely hasn't been served the first lot of documents? It would explain why he didn't attend the return hearing as that was mentioned in the Non Mol.

I think I’d just forward the attached documents.

But why should I? Genuine question. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but that's not my job to be giving them whatever they ask for. It's all there in the court file - and they've already admitted that they've asked the court for it.

As you had the documents emailed to you, it would be the work of seconds to forward them on to the solicitors.
Of course it will delay things to wait for the court to provide copies. They may well regard you as obstructive if you don't send the copies. I can't see that there's anything to be gained by you not providing the copies. From what you say, the non -Mol is valid for another 11 months, and surely it is in your interest to get the occupation order sooner rather than later? What do you think the advantage of delay is to you?

Because there is a chance a judge could decide you were being obstructive, like you say. Or the judge will further postpone for the solicitor to get the documents from the courts.

You want something done, something that you’ve said judges don’t favour doing, and your particular judge seems a bit hesitant to give what you want/a stickler for following process.

I’d be thinking I don’t need the stress of back and forth emails, or a bank holiday weekend of worrying if my actions will be twisted to another narrative.

Sorry, I’m not unsympathetic. I totally agree you don’t have to, and it’s frustrating that you are being hassled. I’m just trying to advise you to look at the bigger picture, what outcome do you want to achieve? He wants to play silly over this battle, you want to win the war.

It's not the "work", it's the principle of the matter. This man has been controlling, coercive and emotionally abusive for the best part of 10 years. I've done everything I can to protect myself and the children with what little I have, and now I have his solicitor expecting documents from me instantly when their client should already have them. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he has the documents but hasn't bothered to look at them. I don't want to roll over the second I'm asked to when it's perfectly reasonable for me to say that they contact their client or the court for what they need.

Thanks for your advice. As I say, it's no trouble for me to give them the documents but I think I object to him snapping his fingers and expecting everything done for him. It was a pattern through our marriage and I thought I'd escaped it by leaving him. He claims to be hard done by financially but he has no hesitation throwing £££ to solicitors when I would have to justify buying clothes for our children. He knows I'm unrepresented and he's chosen to get solicitors to hassle me because he knows he's not allowed to now.

I do understand.

Deep breath. Send the email with the attachments, then take your email off your phone for the weekend at least.

Laugh that he’s a pathetic, controlling arsehole who you are in the process of freeing yourself from. Enjoy your weekend, go and give the kids a cuddle, have a glass of wine/herbal tea tonight and listen to some music that makes you proud you are getting away, this is all a process to get through.

The best thing you can do is to emotionally disengage, I know it’s easier said than done. He wants to play a game, but you’re not a player in his world anymore.

Im sorry you're going through this. Its really hard to see anything other than how he treated you. However it is worth remembering that as a litigant in person you are doing the job of being your own solicitor.

If you had a solicitor, his solicitor would rightly be in contact with your solicitor to confirm documents if they havent received them for whatever reason. It would have been the job of your solicitor to send the documents to court and him just like you did.

So whilst its totally understandable that it feels like more of the same of his awful behaviour.. the solicitor isnt wrong to ask you for them.. plus if hes telling them you're this that and the other and you're nothing but pleasant to them it rather paints a picture for them !!

Family court is horrid particular as a LIP but sometimes the path to the quickest resolution is the right one. If getting the documents means his sols tell him not to fight it then that's a win.

Would it help to know that he has to pay for every single letter or email his solicitor sends or receives?

Ah this explains it I was wondering why OP was being contacted directly instead of via her own solicitor.

In that case yes you should just send them.

Thanks @Mooselooseinmyhoose @ItsOnlyHobnobs for your advice. I agree it's very hard to keep emotions in check when you're getting the same controlling behaviour, albeit through solicitors...

I think part of me doesn't want to be a pushover in front of his solicitors either, but I take your point about if we were both represented it would be reasonable for the solicitors to exchange info. Another part of me is furious that he's literally left it until a couple of hours before his response is due and expects me to run around and find his documents for him. He's had over a month to sit and think on this stuff.

But I will take your advice and send the docs.

😂Yep, it's what's keeping me going atm

Time is money, I’d ask them to ring me to clarify.

Good luck, you’ll soon be free of him- quicker if you send the documents. Do you have copies of what you’ve sent him, date stamped? I’d send those.

Yep, I've got the docs with court seals and dates

These type of people ALWAYS leave it to the last minute. And play every game under the sun. They hope it they ignore it it will disappear.

Im so sorry you've been through all this but well done for getting this far!

I would send them with the caveat that their client has received all of the necessary documents, and for the sake of expedience, you will forward them this time, and any further documentation should be requested from their client.

I totally get why you don't want to send the document OP. And he IS using his solicitors in an attempt to continue his abuse I'm sure.

But I'd probably hold my nose and send them (on the latest date possible) with either no cover email at all OR the longest dreadfully passive aggressive cover email you can muster (on the grounds the solicitor may charge him for reading it) - "These were sent to your client, but as he is sadly incapable of managing his own emails, you have requested you supply me with copies. blah blah blah"

At the end of the day focus on what YOU want to achieve & let that guide you.

I think the comment upthread about you effectively being your own solicitor is correct - usually you would simply direct any such communications to be made to your solicitor.

as for "She emailed me back again, saying it would be "reasonable and standard" for me to provide these" you could comment back how it is reasonable and standard for her client to provide his solicitor with his documents etc.

Good luck getting free of this dipshit & I really admire you repping yourself - fierce!!!

Yes, it would cost him more if you accidentally forwarded one attachment per email.....

Drop in with some hard copies. Say you’ll wait while they photocopy them since they are your only copies. Then they’ll have to charge him for that half hour in addition to compiling and copying later

After all, if he can’t find the e-mails, neither can you

He’s bring an arse to hair you into being an arse.

Don’t dance to his tune.

Email whay had been requested and carry on

@PurpleJune I think that you providing them would just strengthen his case in regard to the docs not being served!! i would perhaps contact the court and find out if they did email them to him. they can go back in their sent folder to the date and time you received yours to see if they were emailed to him! if he had a solicitor at that time then they would most likely have been sent the docs too.

Legal fees are being met from a finite pool of assets. The more he spends on legal fees, the less money he has to meet any financial settlement. It would have taken seconds to send them on, and that would have saved the solicitor lots of time and therefore cost. It is short sighted to make him run up more legal costs.

Personally I wouldn't want to risk the judge considering me obstructive either.

I think that's a bit harsh. My Ex has been served the documents but presumably misplaced them or deleted them thinking they were spam (I can't imagine the court wouldn't have served them which is the only other possibility).

And the other option available to them, which I would've thought would be the most obvious, is to ask the court for these documents. Because if he wasn't served (and I am highly dubious of that), I would want to know from the court why I wasn't served.

The last avenue I would go down is emailing the victim knowing full well she's unrepresented. And to come in all guns a blazing wanting this and that and wanting them instantly because your client is useless.

I've been the responsible party by going this alone for cost reasons, whereas my Ex has demonstrated that he's quite willing to drop as much money as needed when for the whole marriage I got told off for buying anything that was above no name baked beans.

I've provided the documents now, only because I don't want to be obstructive, but I don't want to be walked all over by my Ex or anyone he pays to do his dirty work for him.

As others have said, you have nothing to gain from refusing to forward the documents and potentially quite a lot to lose.

I’d forward them but with some sarky comment about it being the last time you take care of ex’s admin for him and if he misplaces any more documents he can seek them elsewhere.