Does my DD have a constructive dismissal claim?

[teafirstmum]

My DD(24) has been on a training contract at a reasonable sized firm since 2023.
She is about to go into her final seat. However due to poor management of her time in her seats, she is only getting two months in this seat before she is set to qualify.
She has been told she needs to be perfect from day one in this seat in order to get a job at the end. No mistakes, arriving early and leaving late, working through her lunch break and her weekends.
She feels as though she’s been set up to fail, and at a really awful time for newly qualified solicitors to apply to move.
She is still waiting for her Solicitors Qualifying Exam results, and if she fails she may get some extra time.
I think she could have a claim for constructive dismissal. They’ve made it impossible for her to perform to their standards and made it clear she won’t have a job in two months.
Does she?

Why is this disgusting? The firm I trained at has a great reputation for IP and many of my cohort (including me!) applied for that reason. But out of over 40 of us they only had one place. Most of us ended up qualifying into finance or corporate which I (and others) had no interest in. I had two seats in M&A, one in banking and one in real estate - there was too much competition for IP.

Luckily for me I was seconded into in-house commercial which involved a lot of IP but a lot of friends are still in finance or corporate...

OK that's not the same thing either! I am surprised they let her stay on longer as normally that causes difficulties for the trainee due to take over from her, and the department she was going to (as well as your daughter, as she's found out), but what did they actually say? Because letting someone stay on in a seat for a bit longer isn't promising them a job. I assume she has no offer letter or contract they have reneged on. Is there even a job in the preferred seat?

She needs to get onto recruitment consultants ASAP and she needs to work hard in her final seat. She may be one of the trainees who are unemployed in September, many through no fault of their own becauae jobs aren't there. She has two months.

But none of this is constructive dismissal territory.

Well I suspect Op your daughter either isn’t telling you the whole position or isn’t aware of it herself.

I would be surprised if the firm doesn’t run a formal process for qualification jobs if they have a decent sized cohort to deal with once or twice a year. it is only downside for them to not have really.

Anyway, for one reason or another the old department don’t now want her - maybe her performance dipped, they are decreasing how many roles they can create or better candidates presented themselves. All these things can happen.

So if she wants to stay at the firm she can either look at the seats before that, speak to her old partners and see any chances to get a job and/or give it her all in the new seat. Honestly I would do both. It is, ahem, a while since I qualified myself but I went out of my way to make sure the departments I did seats in wanted me back on qualification, even if I didn’t really want them as I would rather have the option of a different department over no job.

That's normal. Trainees spend time in different areas.

Yabu and overreacting.

Your daughter is an adult in a demanding and difficult sector. Let her get on with it. Stay out of it.

Please check your private messages

You no longer have to work for a company for 2 years to claim constructive dismissal. For instance- discrimination I believe you can claim from day 1..

YABU and I’m sorry but truly you don’t know what is going on here.

The standard expected of anyone on legal training contracts to be kept on IS very high, you do have to be the best of the best, you are the first one in and last one out.

Sounds like she knows that she’s NOT that, and isn’t getting kept on, which is totally fine and normal for probably 90% of people, she just doesn’t want to admit that to you.

you have to at least have bloomin started there…. This dd hasn’t even had day 1!

This is wrong.

Discrimination is not constructive dismissal. You have always been able to claim that from day 1.

You can also claim from day 1 if you are dismissed for a reason that is automatically unfair (e.g. being pregnant or joining a union) or if you are wrongfully dismissed (i.e. your employer has dismissed you in a way that breaches your employment contract).

You cannot make a claim for any other form of unfair dismissal, including constructive dismissal, until you have been employed for 2 years.

I think your daughter is petrified of telling you Op that her training contract has not gone well at all and know that wherever the last placement was going to be…. She would not be offered a job at the end of it

This was pretty much experience as part of the big Four accountancy firm, 25 years ago
It’s survival of the fittest, Always has been

Discrimination is completely irrelevant in this case though (based on OP's posts)

I'm really sorry OP but I do agree with PPs that you may not have the full story. A good friend (still is) on my degree course always claimed to have got a 2:1. He didn't turn up to our graduation but we had a booklet saying how many people got what class of degree. Only one third out of 300 students. I never thought it was him as he stated he had a 2:1 so confidently - got drunk together a year or so ago and out of nowhere he admitted he was the one with the third.

What I'm trying to say is some people may not be entirely truthful with how things are going. Your daughter may be putting on some bravado but it may be going badly in reality. That's not disparaging her, but some people choose careers that just don't fit their personalities.

As I said above, she should maybe look into in-house. It's also not an easy ride but generally you're out of the office by 6 or so, so at least you can have a decent evening and night's sleep.

Training contracts are fixed term contracts (at least they were when I did mine years ago). So you aren't dismissed, they just come to an end and you are either offered permanent post as a qualified solicitor or you aren't. So no dismissal, constructive or otherwise.

It sounds tough especially if it seemed to be going well until now but it's a really tough industry. It doesn't mean she's crap. I've seen lots of excellent trainees not offered a permanent post because there just wasn't a business need at the relevant time. She will be qualified though which is a massive hurdle to clear.

It's two months, she needs to live, sleep, breathe work and then it'll be over. If she's good she'll manage it, but I suspect as others do that there's more to this.

The best support you can give her now is to help her get into a good healthy routine, making time for eating well, good sleep hygiene, some regular exercise, plus focusing on the job and not worrying about the future. She has to calm down and crack on or she'll burn herself out.

Take her out for some walks in nature, invite her for dinner, buy her some relaxing candles or book her a massage. Be her calm safe place, encourage her that she can do this., but also say that it's not a disaster if she doesn't get a job with this particular firm. Do not rant on about constructive dismissal and how terrible her employer is, and distract her right now. The more you panic on her behalf and wind her up the less likely she is to do well.

Her firm is likely to have a Employee Assistance Programme, suggest she contact them for some advice as well. They will be very used to stressed young professionals in her situation. A visit to the GP isn't a bad idea either, some beta blockers and/or some (very) short term sleeping tablets to get her back on track may help

Yes but there’s no suggestion of discrimination…

In your OP you've made reference to poor management of her time in her seats. What does this mean? Poor by the firm, poor by her? There's clearly an issue and you likely don't have all the details. Maybe if she does get her quals a new start somewhere else would be good anyway.

I don’t think so. Unfortunately training contracts and permanent roles are each competitive and not all can be taken on. That should be clear in the terms of the training contract. Passing the exams is only one part of the assessment.

I’m not saying this is wrong because it definitely is the case in some firms, but having worked in a global firm, high street firm and in house (all up north) I’ve only ever seen it culturally on the high street where numbers are so low that everyone is watched like a hawk.

There is absolutely an attitude from some lawyers that trainees should be working all hours and treated poorly because they had to do it. Some trainees do it entirely voluntarily because they think it’s what they should be doing.

My attitude towards it is that these people are our future work place equals and may well surpass us in the field. Quality of work is infinitely more important than quantity and presenteeism for the sake of it is of no use to anyone. I’ve had amazing trainees and shit trainees and none of it has anything to do with the time they arrived at the office nor the time they left.

I do agree with this - several of my fellow trainees would stay until 8/9pm every day even though they had no work whatsoever just to try and show how keen they were. I never did that - if I was done by 5/6pm I was going home! But equally there is an expectation that you'll do evenings/overnights/weekends when it's needed. Like I said upthread we had beds in the office (I never had to use one but plenty of the other trainees did!) and when I did a vacation scheme at Clifford Chance the HR person was going on about their pool, their onsite tailor and hairdresser, their bedrooms, their 24 hour canteen etc etc - everyone else on the vac scheme was so impressed but I was just thinking... is this all so people have no valid reason to leave the office, ever?? Which is largely why I chose a slightly lower tier firm (we still worked hard but not to that level!)

Training contracts are usually fixed term, so as far as I know you can’t claim constructive dismissal when they come to an end. The terms of a training contract are different to a permanent post (to reflect the training component), so any following post would be a new, different contract in any case.

Exactly this - she should be working at NQ standard at this point. Getting up to speed with a new area of law quickly is entirely possible - and the reality of lawyers everywhere.

she’s been thrown a bone she needs to keep on it and work her socks off.

I think she needs to search further afield then. She's only 24 so she can move to wherever the work is.

I think she has been told that she isn't what they are looking for and to finish the last seat as well as she possibly can so that she qualifies and then look for work elsewhere. It might not be because she isn't good at what she does but the different firms have different standards, she may well fit in better somewhere else.

Why so negative? Anyone can do anything if you know it's only for the short term. Change your and her attitude completely. See it for what it is, apply to other places, but in the meantime attack this with all your might, go in early, stay late, give it your absolute all for 2 months. It's only 2 months, that's nothing.