Private school fees, can this reduce child maintenance?

[allthegearandplentyideas]

my ex had successfully managed to avoid paying any child maintenance for the first 12 years of his life due to quitting his 9-5 job amd becoming self employed when CMS caught up with him. Despite having 7 properties he managed to fiddle the numbers so it appears he only earns £1.17 per week. I really suffered financially because of this and DC and I had very little despite me working all the hours I could to provide for him.

2 years ago he finally had to start paying after many tribunals and me not giving up (I/DC were failed time and time again and I had to pay legal fees and get into more debt to help advocate for us)

DC is now 14 years old and wishes to go to private school (his dad has talked him into this).

Whilst I think it could be a good opportunity for him (despite the state school he goes to now is good and he is thriving/high achieving) I can't help but worry thay this is exp's final attempt to try to fudge the numbers to be able to pay less and less.

Ever since paying CM, exp has mad around 10 separate appeals as to why he shouldn't be paying what he is, and as an ex accountant he really does know all the loopholes.

I feel DC will resent me if I say no but I also need to protect myself and him from further financial chaos as I would massively struggle without the child maintenance due to the post of living.

I know nothing about financial loopholes and tax returns etc, does anyone have any experience of this or know about reducing child maintenance on the basis of less income due to high outgoings ?

No, sending your son to an independent school will not reduce the amount of maintenance your ex has to pay. You will need to get an agreement with your ex as to how the school fees will be paid. If necessary, you can apply to the courts for an order forcing him to pay some or all of the school fees in addition to child maintenance.

Thank you, that is a relief and at least one of my many worries ticked off the list 🙂

That’s not true. If he’s a high earner (over £156k) and the maintenance calculation is done on James v Seymour rather than CMS, then school fees can be factored into the calculation. So depends on the circumstances.

I’d be worried he’d suddenly stop paying the fees.

I think we can safely assume this is a CMS case rather than top up maintenance given the father's 10 appeals.

How can he have made 10 separate appeals in 2 years? The CMS system won’t allow for this - appeals can take on average 6 months to reach a final decision!

My big concern here would be that the refusal to pay and the many appeals are about control and leaving you short of money, rather than an affordability issue if he owns 7 houses.

If that’s the case there is a real risk that he’s stopped thinking about the maintenance and is instead looking for another way to leave you without money. Offering private school, getting it all set up, paying for 6 months and then stopping mid year would be a perfect way to do that unless you’re wealthy enough to independently fund private school….

I would refuse unless father sets up a trust for the fees through to 18 which he cannot alter/remove money from and an irrevocable agreement that he pays 100% of fees and associated costs. I've no idea about the CMS but it is undoubtabley another form of financial control.

How can he have made 10 separate appeals in 2 years? The CMS system won’t allow for this - appeals can take on average 6 months to reach a final decision!

She didn't say that he made 10 appeals in 2 years.

She said he dodged maintenance for 12 years and then 2 years ago, after many appeals, started paying.

This is very very good advice!

I wouldn’t trust that he would keep paying the fees

Absolutely he needs to pay the full fees up front plus a fund up front for all uniform, activities, trips, travel etc.

It does sound like another way of abusing you financially.

Your son is 14, that's old enough to understand that you cannot afford to have the CMS reduced or to cover the school fees if his father flakes. Which means pulling him out of school after he's made friends etc.

Similarly, it puts him under his father's control if he starts at this school and is unable to continue without support. There's every chance your ex will use it to manipulate and control him.

I would try to explain your concerns in a factual, unemotive way. I would refuse to cosign any obligation on fees and I would check back with your solicitor on whether he can change his contributions via CMS without an appeal.

I assume that the school fees are more than the CM payable.
He is not unreasonable to say that he’ll pay for one or the other- private school is a nice to have like football lessons while CM is a legal requirement.

I think that you’re walking into a trap personally and he’ll use the school fees to control you. He could suddenly say that he can’t afford fees in an attempt to financially abuse you and you’ll end up having to scramble for money because your son is in exam years and you’ll want him to finish that stage of his education without interruption. I would love to be wrong though.

He could also use the school fees to bribe your Ds into living with him 100%. Who the teen lives with is up to him and no judge would ignore his wishes - even 0% with you. Ex will get child maintenance from you and will be delighted that you can’t/won't shirk your financial responsibility /not as “smart”
as him to avoid paying CM.

If you decide to go ahead then make sure it’s your ex’s name on the contract so the school
goes after him for fees. Like a mortgage, if both of your names are on the contract and he doesn’t pay then they will go after both of you for 100% of the fees - they won’t chase for 50% each.

She did, further on.

"Ever since paying CM, exp has mad around 10 separate appeals"

Sage advice and a couple of things I hadn't even thought about there so thank you thank you thank you for all the replies

Exp had shown many times that his hatred for me is stronger than his love for DC. He certainly does try to 'buy' DC and has often left DC in a state of anxiety over several issues and put DC in a position of having to choose between which parent he sees. He can be a great dad at times but generally is a sociopath and narcissist and I have had no end if stress from exp over the years which has been relentless and completely unnecessary, but he must always have one over on me (Despite him cheating and then leaving me, it should be me who is angry and bitter)

I can't trust him as far as I can throw him and although he's always talked about being keen for DC to attend private school (even going as far to get a lawyers letter to me saying 'if you agree to DC attending private school then I will start paying you child maintenance' 🙄) I am edging on the thought that any benefit would be outstripping by way more negatives surrounding this. I feel sad for DC, he is keen to do this and believes it would be great and exciting and so much better, and if course I am racked with guilt, but I just can't take the risk of anymore stress to endure or loss of income

The logistics would be a struggle too and would require me to drive him to a bus stop as it's not in walking distance to be collected at 7.30am, the school is in a different council area and that would take it's toll on me. Not to mention the fact that my other 2 DC that I have with DH would not be afforded the same opportunity and whilst eldest DC should not be penalised for that it certainly is something I need to think about too.

Co-parenting with a narcissist is just never ending drama. We also have had no less than 8 different interlocutor made, every time it's changed, Exp finds something else which he feels us unfair on him (it's always about him and not about DC) so gets it to court and things are tweaked again. Then there's never ending court dates over his appeals for child maintenance, he keeps finding reasons as to why the previous judges decision was wrong at the tribunal and finds more 'evidence' which must be looked at. It's beyond draining, and part of me feels this is so he looks like a hero and I am the bad guy telling DC no, so I'm not looking forward to the conversation versatile with DC about it all tonight and I know he will be very disappointed 😔

I personally think that 14 is old enough to hear "Dad loves you but hasn't always been reliable about paying for the things he needs to for you, and in the past I have paid all of the costs of supporting you because Dad refused. I can't move your school as I can't be sure that he will pay the fees, and its a lot more expensive than food or electricity so if he doesn't pay I can't afford to pay for this instead and its too much of a risk".

Hi, one thing to consider is “fees in advance” schemes. Some private schools offer a fees in advance scheme, where a parent/grandparent can pay all of the fees up front - usually for a discount on the overall fees.

discuss this with DS, as he is quite old enough to understand that his DD is a bit flaky. Say you are going to propose that Ex use this method which will protect DS of having to leave part way through the course.

Do remember that it won’t cover all the costs and things like music, trips, exam fees are all extras. Suggest Ex covers all the basics and you will cover the extras out of child maintenance.

a good opportunity for DS, but make sure Ex can’t dodge out, leaving you to pick the pieces.

I also think it's a ploy to continue to try to control you financially. I spent many years in family court, because as you have observed, there is always one more thing they don't accept. PP have suggested useful structures, but men like this will do anything they can to cause harm. I would avoid the risk, if your son's current school is ok. You mention younger DC - is it useful to have the oldest at secondary for siblings admission.

This is a good idea OP

You need to have an overdue age appropriate conversation with your DS and his father’s financial control. How you cannot trust his father to pay for school and you think he’s pushed it as you will have to say no.

Has he actually started paying child support plus ALL the backdated support?

This, OP. The man is a grade A shit and he's put this idea in your ds' head.

He'd be going from not paying a penny, to paying £25k a year....I don't believe it. It smacks of a scheme to cause you high stress. Beware

Sorry if I've missed any questions, can look back properly later and reply but yes he has 20k in arrears for some of the years which he didn't pay (only backdated til 2019 as I didn't have the mental strength/willpower to do anything about it til then, I was so worn down by him and all of the bullshit) however he has OF COURSE increased his pension contributions every year since then meaning the amount I receive monthly has already decreased by 150, and will most lilely continue to drop because of this, then there's a small percentage added on to help go towards the arrears. It will be a very long time until it is paid in full but he won't be able to sleep at night until he comes up with a plan on how to get out of the arrears or at the very least significantly reduce them!

I could wrote a book about the tricks he's played on me over the years. Usually it involves not bringing DC home after holiday contact til a day later, causing me significant stress, or sometimes attempting to collect DC when it's not even his weekend to collect. I was in a very dark place with it all for quite a while and DH is not happy as he stepped in and did exps job of supporting DC and helping keep a roof over DC's head etc etc and financially supported DC (willingly of course) so that we all have a good life

Really appreciate everyone's input, mumsnet is like a lovely village of very wise women