Resignation and redundancy pay

[notanothernamechange24]

Posting for advice on where a family member stands legally and whether they might have any legal come back on their employer
situation is Family member was pressured into handing in their notice prematurely for their retirement. They had worked for the organisation for 15 years + all with a very good reputation. FM is now of retirement age. One month after giving six months notice of intention to retire the organisation announced that it would be closing approximately a month after FM retirement. All other employees will be getting a decent redundancy payment but as FM had already given notice they will not receive anything.

FM feels strongly that they were put under pressure to hand their notice in so that the organisation in question could have adequate time to find a replacement as FM is in a fairly senior role. They have some written evidence of this.

Would they have a case against employer for unfair dismissal? Or something similar?

Best to contact ACAS about this.

Why would they need to find a replacement if they are closing?

Since your FM resigned, they are unlikely to have a case for unfair dismissal. They may have a case for constructive dismissal, but such cases are hard to win. They need to talk to a solicitor who specialises in employment law. If they have legal cover on their home insurance, their insurers may be able to help.

@Flytrap01 regurgitating AI to give legal advice? Really?

So is your fm role being made redundant? Or have they hired/ are looking to hire a replacement? Unfortunately I don’t think they have any claim on a redundancy payout.

how is it any different that anyones views, i could just say all the best and that does not help or i could at least try to help

Hopefully your doctor doesn’t do the same the next time you go to them with an issue.

(People don’t tend to answer forum posts with essays.)

i get in theory what your saying but as the op wanted advice and lets be honest hardly anyone has offered any, i thought i would try to help

if on the other hand the thread had 100+ bits of advice then there would be no point in offering the advice

as for the doctor bit, i already do that to help save time

If I were your friend I would raise a grievance about the "pressure to resign". When they ask how it could be resolved your friend can point out that everybody is receiving redundancy packages so as a gesture of goodwill perhaps they could do something for her? They would have to accept she was put under pressure to resign for that to work.

Well it is more than just giving your own personal view because ChatGPT will assert things as facts without nuance or qualification - if that's what OP wants you could recommend she plugs the question in to the AI herself and interprets the results rather than copy and pasting or at least say that's what you've done so she knows you aren't giving this yourself as advice from your own personal knowledge.

OP as the AI correctly identified your relative is unlikely to be able to simply retract their resignation and claim redundancy so they'd be looking at some kind of constructive dismissal +/- age discrimination, or threatening the company into some kind of settlement pre legal action. What it doesn't really make clear is that these types of claims are really hard to win, for constructive dismissal you need to show there was a really fundamental or serious breach in the employment contract, such that the person had no reasonable option but to resign. You're also expected to mitigate your losses, i.e. if you're claiming for loss of earnings (which is what a redundancy payment also does) you're also expected to have evidence of active job hunting which presumably they're not if the intention always was to retire? Of course it would be nicer to have a redundancy settlement to add to the pension but legally speaking if they were always intending to retire at that age anyway (which is what the company will argue) it's not a constructive dismissal. Not saying there's no possible case to be made out here, there could be, but it depends on the exact nature of the pressure put on, some subtle hints that it would be convenient for the business if people were to leave earlier rather than later is unpleasant of course but unlikely to amount to constructive dismissal in itself. Has your relative anything in writing, or was the pressure exerted in front of witnesses who would be willing to verify their version of events? It might be worth a stab at an internal grievance process before they leave if so, they should take some legal advice for sure. If they do have a good case their solicitors could potentially negotiate a settlement for them without having to go to court at all which would be highly desirable.

@NoctuaAthene but then why would the op be taking anyones view as fact ?
especially on here , what anyone says could be wrong, incorrect or have parts missing.

so in theory trust no one, but i thought my attempt was better than just saying all the best.

besides if others offered more help and advice then the tool would no be needed

It’s probably loads better than much of the rubbish advice dished out on mumsnet!

no comment but you can see why i used it ?

OP only posted last night though, give people a bit of time before deciding no-one is going to post or the advice will be rubbish? Or like I say, direct them to ChatGPT themselves and say you've found it useful in similar situations yourself, or say that you're posting AI content then they can make their own judgement on how to use it? People don't come to forums for 'real' legal/medical advice (or they shouldn't anyway) but they want personal opinions from people who have some knowledge/experience of the situation. If they wanted to know what ChatGPT would say they could ask it themselves?

Obviously everything on here should be taken with a big pinch of salt but personally I'm not a big fan of posting an 'essay' which to someone not in the know implies the writer is some kind of legal student or writer, or at least has knowledge of the law (which ChatGPT definitely doesn't have, all it is doing is synthesizing and regurgitating similar words and phrases from other places on the internet) without it being clear where it comes from.

ChatGPT can give accurate pointers but it can also literally make things up (there have been lawyers who have cited legal cases in their arguments that ChatGPT told them made a certain point and the judge identified no such case existed). So it’s not even just a matter of missing the nuances but not knowing if some or much of the response is pure hallucination. So you have to know / do the same research anyway.

I’d stay away and certainly caveat to the hilt if passing anything from AI to anyone else.

@NoctuaAthene from helping others on here , not everyone has tryed or even understood the prompts for chatgpt so to avoid all that and get to the point to help them i did the research myself to help the op

lets say Ai is bad, but then how is that any different than someone thats read textbooks and come up with similar views as the Ai, ?

@AgentLisbon but then why is that logic also not the same for other people, as all the same arguements could be made to peoples brains too.

This brain has spent years learning and working in employment law. Experience counts too.

Ditto @ItTook9Years I've got 20+ years working with employment law so my advice is based on experience, employment law and what an employer might be persuaded to do when they don't legally have to.

OP, what evidence do they have that they were pressured? Pressuring alone is not illegal. It would need to fall under harassment or similar. Ultimately, your FM made the decision which presumably they were not forced to do against their own will?

Redundancy pay is compensation for loss of office because everyone else are losing their jobs compulsorily. It's not a pot with your friend's name on. Any business closing down will only pay out what is strictly necessary but they might consider offering your friend an ex gratia payment as a retirement gift. Do you know if this is being considered? It could of course get swiftly withdrawn.

Does your friend have a 6 month notice period in their contract of employment or did they give extra? That may be an angle but most senior folk are on 6 months. It is common to get people to make a decision so a recruitment process can be started.

Personally (as someone who has worked in HR a very long time) your friend hasn't got much to go on. If they resigned under duress why didn't they immediately raise a grievance saying they wanted to carry on working? Raising a grievance now to say they didn't want to resign and actually please can they have some redundancy pay looks a little like, they want some redundancy pay. And they aren't entitled to it.

I wouldn't advise legal action. Lawyers will take your money but it's ultimately down to whether your friend is being made compulsorily redundant. Answer is - no they aren't as they have resigned so they can retire.

Thanks to those who have posted advice. FM is not going to retire they have now got another job to go to. But they are of retirement age. Their original plan would have been to drop some of their responsibilities and also go part time or do adhoc work for the organisation.

They feel it’s quite a kick in the teeth that after 15 years of service they will walk away with nothing because they were pressured into giving the organisation more notice than they were contracted (supposedly to give them time to find a replacement) only to find that the organisation were already planning on shutting down and announced very shortly after FM handed their resignation in. Meanwhile the rest of the staff (including those who have served less than 2 years) are all getting a decent redundancy package.

Edited to add the boss specifically stated to FM that they wanted more notice so as they could find a replacement in the days leading up to FM resignation. Meanwhile they had already made the decision that they would be closing.

Can he withdraw the resignation? Since you won't be looking for a replacement I've decided to stay to the end, no need for a long notice any more. Worth a try anyway.

They have tried retracting their resignation they have also tried appealing to their better nature neither have worked.