Landlord raised deposit dispute

[RealLimeNewt]

Sorry if it's a bit long but really looking for advice. Name changed to not be linked to previous posts but long time Mumsnet user.

We left a property 4 weeks ago tomorrow that had a zero deposit guarantee. We were told an independent third party was attending to complete a check out report (as they did at check in) but heard nothing from the landlord or the agency they employed to complete the report until last Tuesday (3 weeks after we moved out).

The landlord has raised a claim with the zero deposit guarantee for cleaning and redecoration and we were contacted to negotiate the claim with the landlord prior to it going to TDS for formal dispute.

The landlord provided us only with statements of what they were claiming for (which didn’t match our recollection of leaving the property or our video evidence we took) therefore I asked for a copy of the checkout report so that we could see what the independent third party had identified.

This request was ignored twice and the landlord replied to both requests ranting that we must pay and they have incurred substantial costs and are being fair. On the third time of asking for the report before I would comment on their claims, I was told that I had already been sent the report by the agency they were using for end of tenancy (this is not true neither myself or joint tenant received this) and to request this directly from the agent as they would no longer be communicating with me (I would like to add they are also accusing us of committing a crime that we deny and said if we did not settle the dispute they would have no choice but to report to police making it sound like if we did pay they wouldn’t).

The agent has finally now sent us the checkout report and the condition of the property is recorded as being in a better cleanliness position than when we moved in and no damage identified and nothing to support their claims of a crime being committed. Can anyone tell me how the landlord can now be claiming for cleaning and damage and why the report wasn't sent to us in first place?

We have recently found out (in the last two weeks of our tenancy as there was a problem with electrics and an electrician had to come out) that we have had no in date electrical safety certificate for the entire 3 years of our tenancy and every year we had to remind about the gas safety checks and even though the last one ran out a month before our end of lease a new one wasn't carried out. It also took us a year after moving in to be provided with a carbon monoxide alarm for the boiler.

Combined all of this is making me feel like we didn't have a landlord that was aware of their responsibilities and is now looking to make money out of us for cleaning and decoration that we are not responsible for.

Any legal advice to help with our response to the claim would be gratefully received.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

It’s on them to prove any damage alleged at the time of your check out - not three weeks after. I’d just sit back and let it go to TDS mediation.

I am not a lawyer but I do deal with deposit returns as part fo my job
I am a bit confused as to how you had a No deposit insurance cert and also the deposit was held with TDS?
Ddi you pay a deposit or additional rent to cover an insurance policy instead?

Hi Hoppinggreen

thanks for your message. So we used zero deposit guarantee but in the event of any claim that cannot be negotiated between ourselves it goes to TDS for resolution.

I’ve posted a link to the details.

www.zerodeposit.com

Ok, thank you for clarifying. I always steer my clients away from the no deposit scheme because as you have seen it does not mean you have no liability. Its mostly sold by Agents as they earn comission on it.
If TDS is involved then its a good thing, The Landlord will have to supply evidence to them and you will be given the opportunity to counter it. They will need evidence and its usually The Inventory on move in (which you should have) vs the move out report. The move out report belongs to whoever comissioned it so there is no obligation to share it with you but its unusual not to and you would have the right to seee it if it forms part of the dispute.
TDS is neutral but is usually pretty fair
Can I ask what crime they accused you of? Thats very odd

why would you be in a property with a gas boiler, for a year, without buying a carbon monoxide alarm yourselves and being responsible for your own safety?
I feel that you haven’t protected yourself properly safety wise or deposit wise but if you have taken many pictures and videos, then

@harriethoyle has the right idea in my opinion

especially as the threatening landlord seems to be so remiss in his/ner responsibilities and legal requirements.

Thank you for your response I really appreciate it. So if the check in report states in most areas good domestic clean, not good clean in some areas and not clean in some areas but the check out report shows good domestic clean in all areas and no damage identified then we would be covered against the claims of the landlord? From what I’ve read I thought that the tenant should be invited to be present at check out (we weren’t) and should sign report to say it’s a true reflection, is this not the case? So even if it had said we caused lots of damage we wouldn’t have a right to reply or rectify? The fact that we weren’t supplied with it and our requests for it to respond to the claims kept being ignored makes me worried that they were not planning on using it as part of their claim as it does not fit their narrative, are they allowed to do that?

we are being accused of using drugs within the property, a crime we deny as we are anti drugs and no accusation of drug use was levied until they wanted to make a claim and again when we have asked for proof we have been told if we don’t pay the claim they will report to police. We have advised that as we have committed no crime and therefore have nothing to hide we are happy for them to contact the police in this matter.

thanks again for your time.

Thank you for your reply.

we kept asking for one and kept being told it would be supplied and we had to keep asking for a year and it was only supplied when the annual gas safety check came up. The tenancy agreement clearly stated it was the landlords responsibility to provide one at the start of the tenancy. I appreciate that you think we were being silly not providing ourselves but it was the landlords responsibility not ours. It is all of this combined that makes me worried about the dispute as I don’t think they will be truthful with their claims. The tenancy ended as their circumstances changed and they need to sell the property and I don’t want to be responsible for paying for their redecoration to sell the property as check out report clearly states that we left the property in a better cleanliness than check in and mo damage caused

unless the landlord is accusing you of operating a cannabis farm or breaking bad-style meth lab, the police aren’t going to do anything 😂. “Hello officer, some tenants who moved out 4 weeks ago once smoked a spliff in my house; can you go round and have a word/charge them?”. Officer: “No”. The end.

On your main issue, you’ve got check in and check out inventories so just let it go to the TDS. You’re correct they are trying to strongarm you into covering their business costs. Oldest trick in the book, and why we have the TDS.

Thank you, their gaslighting was starting to make me question myself and I was worried that TDS would ignore check out report and just take their word or whatever evidence they have concocted after the report was produced. The checkout report is showing as approved and does not identify any of the issues they have raised and I thought if they disagreed with the report they had a chance to have this on the report but there is nothing on there.

Ex-landlord here. I've taken claims to TDS as both a landlord and on behalf of my son as a student.

Their approach is really quite straightforward. They can only evaluate the facts presented to them in the form of the check-in and check-out reports.
Any other discussion from landlord or tenant about who did what/ said what etc is irrelevant and won't be considered.

It is literally a side by side comparision using the descriptions and photos/videos.
If the check-out report suggests it's in a better condition I'd honestly just say 'let's send it to the TDS to see what they think' . I bet the landlord will back down.
Don't let the LL threaten you with spurious accusations about non-existent crimes.

TDS upheld my claim against my tenant, but she had smashed holes in the wall with doors, broken light fittings and left a huge pile of rubbish in the garden - all of which was clearly documented in the check out report.

Thank you for sharing your experience, this makes me feel calmer. Their ranting was really making me feel like I’d done something wrong .

That’s the idea. They’re trying to bully you into paying. It’s harassment really - prob not in a legal sense but threatening to report people to the police for fabricated crimes is really overstepping. Do you have written evidence of that threat?

We had a similar scenario a few years ago. Landlord said bikes had gone missing from shed, we’d planted Japanese knotweed, wasps nest in loft (padlocked the whole time we lived there). We took it to DPS and they awarded us our whole deposit bar some cooker knobs which were damaged when the grill caught fire which I forgot to replace. The landlord kept phoning my husband offering different amounts and we just stopped answering and took it to DPS

I'm sorry you've suffered with this sh*t landlord. It makes me angry as it adds to the view that all landlords are evil bastards (and they're not!)

I'd suggest keeping any interactions short and formal e.g.

'Since we are not in agreement about the condition of the property let's refer it to the TDS for a decision.'

If they start playing silly buggers with more accusations you can raise the fact that you not having a EICR will have potentially have invalidated the tenancy agreement anyway!

Yes they put it into email and on the second email it said if we cannot settle the dispute between us they will have no choice but to report us to the police to assist their claim.

Thank you. I have made sure all my emails are factual and avoided emotion or being drawn in to tit for tat but that seemed to make the landlord crosser that I wouldn’t engage

That's shocking. If it were me I think I would call their bluff and reply:

Dear Landlord:
Thank you for your email.

We wish the dispute to be referred to the TDS for fair arbitration and resolution.

We have passed your email to our solicitor, who will be in touch, if required.

Do you have any legal helpline cover though insurance or work?

I agree with all PP that you have nothing to be concerned about if the reports are as you say.

I would however urge you to consider your lives and health over what is right. A CO alarm/ monitor can be bought for as little as £8. Instead of waiting for a year for the landlord to fulfill their obligation, after a few days you should have just put in £4 each to help protect your lives.

There’s such a thing as ‘fair wear and tear’ too. When my tenant of five years moved out I had to redecorate the whole place at my expense. She hadn’t done anything other than live there, so a few scuffs here and there are expected. Now a different tenant who put up (without permission) and then tore out shelving leaving large holes was different and I did get money back for that. Another tenant damaged the communal front door (or their moving men did) but it wasn’t part of the inventory and I couldn’t prove it so has to suck it up (the door had just been painted so I knew they had caused the damage).
Sad your landlord makes us all look bad.

Yes, this 100%!

And also tenants should check the batteries in the monitor and in smoke alarms regularly too, as the LL is only responsible for ensuring these are working at the beginning of the tenancy (although I always checked mine at inspections).

That would not actually assist their claim anyway, while it probably does say you are not allowed to use the property for illegal purposees they would have to have solid evidence of this (such as a conviction) for it to be relevant to your deposit return/lack of.
You should have been invited to the check out you are correct but the report is technically the property of the person who comissioned it. I have never had a Landlord/Agent refuse to share one though which does suggest it does not help their case to make a deposit claim. I would just tell them to go through TDS and don't engage directly
I hate these No deposit schemes and woe betide any Agent who suggest one to my clients, its sold as an alternative to a deposit and people think that using the scheme means they can't be held financially responsible for any damage or deposit deductions. I predict them becoming a mis selling scandal one day.

Yes we do and we will contact them should the need arise but we’re hoping to avoid this.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and in future we would but this was our first time renting. We ensured this was all in place for our new tenancy.

Thank you for sharing your experience it has helped to calm me