Items in will sold

[gotthearse]

Hi. My late father had a joint will with my still alive stepmother. Several high value items of his were left to grandchildren in the will.

Stepmother has subsequently sold them without telling anyone. Can she do this?

Is there anything I can do, or do I have to suck it up? The 6 items ranged in value from 25k down to 2k (and were my father's life's work, but that's besides the point). Thanks.

I think you need a solicitor

No she can’t do that it’s theft.

Solicitor.

No , if it was willed to someone , then that was his intention to leave to the person who he,wanted to pass it to .
I suggest you contact a solicitor ( don't know if the same one's your dad used is appropriate ) to check where the law stands .
I have no legal background but you'd think you could claim the monetary value perhaps ?
Sorry for your loss .

Impossible to say on the information given here. Were these items sold before or after he died? If it was after he died, why were they in the stepmother's care? And what exactly did his will say about them?

What do you mean by a joint will?

A joint will is when two or more people merge their wills into a single, combined will.

A joint will may, for example, set out that the property passes to the surviving spouse and then set out what happens when the surviving spouse dies. So, in this case, the will may have left everything to the stepmother with these items going to the grandchildren when the she dies. If that is the case, it is likely that she was within her rights to sell these items.

If you make a will leaving a possession to someone, it does not prevent you selling that possession.

I found this online you might be able to claim the value .
Don't forget different countries have different law , including UK / Scotland .

When property specified in a will is sold before the testator’s death, beneficiaries’ rights often depend on whether the gift is specific, general, or demonstrative. Specific bequests tied to particular items are typically adeemed, while general or demonstrative gifts may entitle beneficiaries to an equivalent value from the estate.

If these items were left in his will, they should have gone to the beneficiaries when he died, not kept by his widow.
There's no such thing as a 'joint will' as far as I'm aware. Could this be a 'mirror will'? If so, the surviving spouse can write a new will later.

But does this mean that the surviving spouse can never change his or her will? I thought what you are describing is a mirror will.

Isn't that a mirror will?

In which case while they are still alive their wills have identical terms, but usually the survivor can do whatever they like with items that have been left to them rather than directly to someone else.

Without actually seeing the terms of the will no one here can advise the OP.

If in his will, it was stated that directly upon his death the items were left to the Grandchildren, then they should have been given to the grandchildren, and the person executing the will is at fault and could be claimed against.

If, however, in his will it stated that items were left to the stepmother, (even if the will was written to say they'd go to the Grandchildren if she had predeceased him) then those items became hers upon his death, and she could do with them what she liked, including selling them.

If they made "mirror wills", there is nothing stopping her from changing her will to say whatever she wishes.

So, in a nutshell, as others have said, it depends on what the will said.

What is a joint will?

Do you mean mirror wills? mirror each other but once one spouse dies the other can change their will - is that’s what happened here?

all that counts in terms of your legal case is what your dad said in his will - the other will doesn’t matter as your SM isn’t dead yet

Mirror wills are when two people (usually spouses or partners) both make identical wills. Either is free to change their will at any time.

Mutual wills are when two people (again, usually spouses or partners) both make their wills at the same time on agreed terms with a legally binding obligation that the wills cannot be altered after the first person dies.

In either of the above cases, there will be two wills. With a joint will, there is only a single will that serves as the will of both parties. It is similar to mutual wills in that the surviving partner cannot change the will after the first partner dies but, unlike mutual wills, there is only a single document. Joint wills are rare. As with mutual wills, they can cause problems for the surviving partner.

If OP is correct that this is a joint will, whether her stepmother was able to sell these items depends on the terms of that will. Without knowing exactly what it says, anyone giving a definitive answer to OP is guessing. She needs to get a copy of the will and consult a lawyer.

DH and I have just redone our Wills and we were told that a mirror/mutual will is lasting and cannot be changed once one spouse has died. We went for non-mirror wills which can be subsequently changed.

As per my last post, mirror wills and mutual wills are different. Mutual wills cannot be changed once one of you has died. Mirror wills can.

Who do you get to write your wills?

it’s surprising how many people I speak to - even a paralegal type people writing wills - that don’t know basic stuff like marriage makes a will invalid…crikes!

We used a solicitor. I'm stunned! I'll need to check the wording now.

I’m sure you’ll be ok. I was referring more to the information about mirror wills

Did these items belong soley and demonstratably to your father? Or could she claimed they were joint possessions.

What is the wording of the will ? Does it say in the event of your DD demise everything to his wife in the first instance if she survives him or does it say everything to his wife, but the specific items for grandchildren are listed. It’s all in the precise wording so you need to speak to a solicitor ASAP with a copy of the will.

Thanks everyone. Seems I have more questions to ask. I'm not certain if it was a joint or mirror will. So I will have to request a copy.

Specific items in the collection were left to specific grandchildren. Other assets were to pass to the remaining spouse on the death of one of them, and then anything left to be split four ways (dad had two kids, she had two kids) on death of second spouse.

The items were most definitely his, bought and restored by him before marriage and it's his hobby during. He was an expert in his field. Stepmother was always cagey about getting said items out of storage, and as they weren't something the grandchildren could use until adults, they stayed in storage until she sold them without telling us. The items were a lifetimes work.

She claims Dad told her to sell the items if she ever needed the money (as far as I'm aware she didn't). He never told us this at any point. When the will was made he made a point of telling the older Grandchildren what he had put them down for and they were looking forward to taking them on when they came of age. I can't understand for the life of me why he would have done that if he had the slightest notion that any other outcome was possible.

Have you found a solicitor who specialises in Wills to help? Not sure if this is of any help but I've gone to mlplaw for a similar problem and they are local experts who may be able to help sort this out for you.

Could you take her to a small clubs court as a cheap option perhaps.

She claims Dad told her to sell the items if she ever needed the money (as far as I'm aware she didn't).

After he died that wasn't an option as they no longer belonged to her.

Was she the executor of his will?