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Original poster

DD 18, no holiday pay

31 replies

TerrifiedPassenger · 21/04/2025 19:51

Hive mind needed please - posting on behalf of DD who doesn't want to get fired but has finally come to realize (after me telling her as much for 18m) her work are screwing her over holiday pay.

She's worked for a small business for nearly 2 years, most of staff are part time and 16-19 years old. Any holiday plans she has to arrange her own cover and is not paid holiday pay. She asked for clarification recently and has a text from the boss to say as they are a small business they don't do holiday pay.

She's on minimum wage and so I know effectively they are breaking the law - she's never had holiday pay (none of the PT staff have either) and she hasn't ever had a wage slip.

She's looking to leave in September for University anyway, what's the best way to approach them? Straight to ACAS or wait until September and then hit the big red button?

Thanks in advance

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 21/04/2025 20:00

They are required by law to provide pay slips and at least 5.6 weeks paid holiday per year. Being a small business does not exempt them from this. They are not "effectively" breaking the law. They are breaking the law.

She has 3 months minus 1 day from the most recent failure to pay holiday pay to take action. Don't leave it too long. However, it is worth investigating the history of this employer. Some small employers simply liquidate the company and start again faced with a successful tribunal claim, leaving their employees out of pocket.

Original poster
TerrifiedPassenger · 21/04/2025 20:13

prh47bridge · 21/04/2025 20:00

They are required by law to provide pay slips and at least 5.6 weeks paid holiday per year. Being a small business does not exempt them from this. They are not "effectively" breaking the law. They are breaking the law.

She has 3 months minus 1 day from the most recent failure to pay holiday pay to take action. Don't leave it too long. However, it is worth investigating the history of this employer. Some small employers simply liquidate the company and start again faced with a successful tribunal claim, leaving their employees out of pocket.

Thanks @prh47bridge you've confirmed my thoughts exactly.

She has more holiday booked for July which I think would take her nicely to the 3 months before she leaves to take action.

The company is a few years old and has skyrocketed - the success and growth has made local press (illegal practices aside), they're very present online and liquidating and relaunching would do them harm.

Should she wait until July to ask again and take action when she leaves or go for it now do you think? I think ACAS recommend their conciliation process initially but can this be overridden if they sack her? Can she then go straight to employment tribunal for unfair dismissal if they sack her before 2 years' employment?

I think I'm going to speak to ACAS on her behalf next week. I'm actually astounded that they've actually 'wriiten' the confirmation that they don't have to pay holiday pay!

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 21/04/2025 21:21

If they sack her with less than 2 years employment she cannot claim for unfair dismissal. She can still claim the unpaid holiday pay, but that is all. If you think her employer might respond by sacking her, waiting until she leaves may be a good move.

uggmum · 21/04/2025 21:26

My DS had the same issue when he worked at dominos. He was 16 at the time.
they refused to pay holiday pay.
he sent them the section on the government website which clarifies what they should pay.
when he left they paid him his holiday pay in full.
I think you can report employers who do not pay it when they should.
When she leaves she could take them to small claims court. The gov site details how to calculate holiday pay

Lovelysummerdays · 21/04/2025 21:31

Sometimes small business don’t allow you to take holidays or pay for them and then write off any holiday pay due annually. They rely on people not wanting to rock the boat. You may find when she leaves she gets holiday pay due for this year.

LegoLivingRoom · 21/04/2025 22:53

If you had evidence that they dismissed her because she asked to be paid holiday pay, this would be an automatically unfair reason for dismissal (assertion of a statutory right) for which you don't need 2 years’ continuous service. But you would need some evidence, and they would be foolish to put anything in writing.

Regarding early conciliation with ACAS, nearly all claims have to start with this, but neither party is required to take part. If she or her employer refused the process, she would just be provided with her early conciliation certificate that has the number needed to submit an ET1 claim form.

FrangipaniBlue · 21/04/2025 23:14

prh47bridge · 21/04/2025 20:00

They are required by law to provide pay slips and at least 5.6 weeks paid holiday per year. Being a small business does not exempt them from this. They are not "effectively" breaking the law. They are breaking the law.

She has 3 months minus 1 day from the most recent failure to pay holiday pay to take action. Don't leave it too long. However, it is worth investigating the history of this employer. Some small employers simply liquidate the company and start again faced with a successful tribunal claim, leaving their employees out of pocket.

Can I ask a daft question….. how does this work for zero hours contracts?

prh47bridge · 21/04/2025 23:42

FrangipaniBlue · 21/04/2025 23:14

Can I ask a daft question….. how does this work for zero hours contracts?

Show quote history

They accrue holiday entitlement equivalent to 12.07% of the hours worked (for most workers - this may be higher if full time employees get more than the statutory minimum). The employer must calculate the holiday entitlement and pay it at the employee's average daily rate of pay.

DumpedByText · 21/04/2025 23:46

This is interesting, my 17 year DD works in a posh cafe in a garden centre. She's been there 18 months and never had holiday pay either.

Problem is she won't want to make a fuss and will be leaving to go to uni as well.

FrangipaniBlue · 22/04/2025 07:27

Thank you @prh47bridgeand does it have to be paid as “holidays” or can they just bump up their hourly rate?

Similar to @DumpedByTextmy 17 year old has had a weekend/holiday job for over a year and he can rota himself in where he can’t work but he’s never had any paid holidays! They do however pay him at a higher rate that NMW for his age so I wondered if that’s how they were doing it?

I also don’t think he’ll want to make a fuss as he’s hoping they will take him on as a full time apprentice next year when he finishes A-levels

prh47bridge · 22/04/2025 07:32

The employer can roll up holiday pay into the employee's normal pay provided it is clearly itemised on payslips.

Shoemadlady · 22/04/2025 07:34

If she is hired in a casual basis then she should accrue a proportional amount for each hour she works.

prh47bridge · 22/04/2025 09:23

Just to add to my previous answer to @FrangipaniBlue, simply paying someone at a higher rate than NMW is not enough. If you are 20 and I tell you I am paying you £11.21 per hour, I can't claim that I've covered your holiday pay. I still have to pay holiday pay on top. However, if I tell you that I am paying you £10 per hour plus £1.21 holiday pay (and that is reflected on your payslips), I am fine and don't have to pay any extra holiday pay.

BobbyBiscuits · 22/04/2025 09:46

I think at least one employer I've had as a teen was like this. One fella made me work from 8.45am til 7-8pm every weekday without a single break. I did go on holiday but I never had holiday pay on my payslip.

Another place gave a 20 min break for a ten hour shift. No holidays allowed!?

Bloody bastards ripping off young people. I was only 18-19 in first ft jobs. They took advantage then and they still are now.

Happyasarainbow · 22/04/2025 09:56

My suggestion would be to come up with an innocuous reason now why she needs the pay slips - then make a call on when to bring up the holiday pay. You're going to want the exact breakdown of hours and what they've been paying her, not just the net amount that your DD sees in her bank account.

Psychoticbreak · 22/04/2025 11:43

OP she should tell her employer shes applying for a loan for uni and needs proof of employment so needs all of her payslips asap.

Comefromaway · 22/04/2025 11:48

Prh is entirely correct. I run payroll. Rolled up holiday pay used to be illegal but it is now allowed, however it has to be clearly shown on the payslip.

Original poster
TerrifiedPassenger · 22/04/2025 11:49

Psychoticbreak · 22/04/2025 11:43

OP she should tell her employer shes applying for a loan for uni and needs proof of employment so needs all of her payslips asap.

I think we're going to tell them she's applying fo a bursary - several staff work there during uni breaks so may sniff a rat but bursary might not have been on their radar.

Thanks for the advice so far.

OP posts:
FrangipaniBlue · 22/04/2025 22:42

prh47bridge · 22/04/2025 09:23

Just to add to my previous answer to @FrangipaniBlue, simply paying someone at a higher rate than NMW is not enough. If you are 20 and I tell you I am paying you £11.21 per hour, I can't claim that I've covered your holiday pay. I still have to pay holiday pay on top. However, if I tell you that I am paying you £10 per hour plus £1.21 holiday pay (and that is reflected on your payslips), I am fine and don't have to pay any extra holiday pay.

Thank you - I will get him to double check the breakdown on his payslip but I think this could be what they do ie NMW and then a separate holiday pay element

minnienono · 22/04/2025 22:49

It’s really common to pay the holiday element as pay for part time work but it has to be on your pay slip

Original poster
TerrifiedPassenger · 23/04/2025 01:27

minnienono · 22/04/2025 22:49

It’s really common to pay the holiday element as pay for part time work but it has to be on your pay slip

So she's not getting a payslip, is only being paid nmw (so no holiday pay bundled in with her hourly rate) and a text from the boss saying that as they're a small business they don't have to pay holiday pay to the part time staff...

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 23/04/2025 07:30

he’s actually put it in writing in a text! She’s got a lot of evidence there if she needs to take it further

prh47bridge · 23/04/2025 07:52

Comefromaway · 23/04/2025 07:30

he’s actually put it in writing in a text! She’s got a lot of evidence there if she needs to take it further

He may actually believe that small businesses don't have to pay holiday pay. I have come across many small business owners who have little idea of the law. I remember one who, when a member of staff handed in their notice, offered them a pay rise in writing to induce them to stay then, when they did, refused to pay the increased salary they had offered. He was adamant that the law was on his side - that it was absolutely fine to offer someone a salary in writing and then pay them less. The courts, of course, disagreed.

Mickeychampionwhatgoodami · 23/04/2025 08:02

No payslip,I'd be wondering about Ni contributions.