Bought car with major, dangerous, fault.

[Effingcars]

Bought a car from eBay. The seller described it as a good runner and it had a lot of work put into maintaining it. It was described as an ideal car for a new driver or to learn in.

The car was uninsured, so a test drive was not doable, but they showed all the receipts for the services and things done to it, and it sounded fine.

It's an automatic (this is important).

It drove home fine, used the foot brake, not the handbrake throughout.

Couldn't park inside yesterday, so parked in road.

Moving other cars around today, had to use the handbrake - and it doesn't work!

I know caveat emptor etc, and as it was a private seller it's sold as seen.

However, I also know it is illegal to sell an unroadworthy car as a runner (and the ad states it is good to go and could be driven away).

I've contacted the seller, but they're ignoring.

What exactly can we do? I imagine they must have known there was this fault, yet declared it was good to drive.

The car has an MOT until later this year.

As you yourself said and know - caveat emptor.

Thanks all. Yes it was silly to buy without test driving. I didn't realise the car was untaxed and wasn't given a test drive, until the fault developed.

The person is now despondent and wants to sell it on for spares and repairs as they feel there may be lots of faults.

I've checked the MOT history and there have been no advisories for years, not sure whether that is good or bad, but there is a lot of receipts for work done on the car.

The only time I ever use my handbrake is on my parents 45° drive, so a couple of times a month, I only ever put it in Park. Just get it fixed, it doesn't render the car unusable

The person is now despondent and wants to sell it on for spares and repairs as they feel there may be lots of faults.

Well they can either do that and take the loss or pay to have the fault fixed and still have a car.

I do think 'there may be lots of faults' applies in most cases of 15 year old care though, you just never know.

Private sellers are assumed to be laypeople, and laypeople aren’t assumed to have any mechanical knowledge. If the car had not failed an MOT for this issue, the seller can’t be assumed to have known there was an issue. A private seller mustn’t sell a car with a known issue as in good order, but you’re unlikely to be able to demonstrate conclusively that the seller knew about it.

An uninsured, untaxed vehicle was very likely to have been off road and unused for some time, which is rarely good for old cars - it was utterly daft of the buyer to buy it without a test drive, they should have walked away. It’s clearly frustrating for them, but they can at least see if it’s fixable. One issue doesn’t necessarily mean a raft of issues.

Agreed. It may well have had lots of work done and been well looked after but a 15 year old Astra IS going to have issues and there are plenty of elderly components just waiting to spoil your day.

There's always risks buying any car privately. My car is 16 in May but I've had it 12.5 years so know it's history.

The driver is right to be concerned but before going straight to scrapping it, send it for an mot. You'll know exactly what needs doing and it's safer than driving a potentially dangerous car just because it has an currently valid mot.

I've seen a car not move for 2 years and still get a new mot, thankfully new rules will put a stop to that

"Sold as seen" is meaningless legally. When you buy a car from a private individual, it must be roadworthy and match any description given. The description "good runner" doesn't apply to a car with a faulty handbrake as you cannot legally drive it - it is not roadworthy and the seller committed an offence by selling it in this condition. You therefore have a claim against the seller. Ignore those who say you don't.

Re proving when the fault developed, given what has happened I am sure the courts would conclude that, on the balance of probabilities, the fault was present when you bought the car.

@Lovelynames123 - A faulty handbrake does indeed render the car unusable. If you drive a car where the handbrake does not work or is below the required standard you can incur a fine and 3 points. Also, leaving an automatic car in Park with the handbrake off is not recommended. The parking pawl in the transmission is not as strong as the handbrake, so there is a greater risk that your car will roll away. Relying on Park can also lead to increased wear in the transmission.

Sold as seen and buyer beware.

I’d likely never buy a car from a private seller, unless it was something a bit special, and I know my cars.

For clarity, whether the seller knew about the fault is not relevant. The vehicle must match any description given. If it does not, you have a claim against the seller even if they honestly believed the car matched their description.

And yet again we have someone piling in with "sold as seen". There is no such thing in law. You have fewer rights against a private seller, but you still have some rights. The vehicle must be roadworthy and must match any description. In OP's case, it failed on both counts.

@Effingcars

Indeed!

The problem is that a private seller is presumed to have no knowledge of the condition of the car. A dealer would have to. Any court action against the seller is likely to fail.

I am not convinced that a non-working handbrake is a serious fault [although of course it will fail an MoT. With a automatic car simply putting it into "P" ["Park"] locks the transmission and prevents the car moving when parked.

Lordy.

All the usual wise after the event stuff. Don't think it helps @Effingcars to be told they've been had for a mug!!

I got caught similarly in a Mini c1982 with worn swivel joints.

All you can do now realistically is find out what it'll cost to repair.

"Bought a car from Ebay".

You did WHAT?

A non-working handbrake is indeed a serious fault. It renders the car unroadworthy. If you are caught driving a car without a working handbrake you will get 3 points and a fine.

A private seller is still liable if they sell a car that is unroadworthy or that fails to match any description they give. If, for example, the seller says a car has aircon, the aircon must be fitted and working. It is no defence for the seller to say they never use the aircon so didn't know that it had failed.

In this case the seller described the car as a "good runner", which it isn't, and sold an unroadworthy car, which is an offence. Any court action against the seller would succeed.

Every time someone has problems with a second hand car they have bought privately, there is a pile on of incorrect advice. It doesn't seem to matter how often those of us who know the law point out the actual legal position, people are still told that they don't have a claim when they clearly do.

No. You do not understand. The word 'runner' does not relate to the general condition of thr car. It specifically relates to the fact that the car goes. The engine starts and it moves, which it does. If they had said it was in good condition, you might have had a point!

OP
@prh47bridge Is correct but you should go to a proper consumer rights site such as Which or Citizens Advise and read what they have to say. They are lots of knowledgable posters on Mumsnet but there also a lot that spout nonsense.

I assume you paid cash.

I think you will need a report stating that the car was unroadworthy when you bought it. Then after giving the guy a chance to sort things out by either taking the car back, repairing it or knocking some money off you need to take him to the small claim court now known as a court claim.

Getting you money back from him will be another matter but might be ok.

Another thought is to visit him and make it clear that you are serious about wanting your money back. Maybe go with some friends.

Obviously you should take screen shots of all messages and the ad etc.

No, you are the one who does not understand. This car is not roadworthy. The seller committed an offence by selling it. It is not a runner at all as you cannot legally use it on public roads.

I’m wondering if I’m doing it wrong now as I always apply the handbrake ( well the foot brake in mines ) when I park as why wouldn’t you?

FOR SALE: Aeroplane

Engines work fine

Only one wing

Good runner

The only person whose advice I would take on this thread is prh47bridge. He knows what he's talking about legally.

It is worth getting someone to look at the car, if it is the only error then you could just put in a claim for the repair cost plus out of pocket expenses.

It is not proven or probable that the car was not roadworthy when sold

You can't prove the brake was broken before it was tried and before it was sold

In this case the seller described the car as a "good runner".

Id there an accepted definition for a "good runner". If the seller said he though it meant the engine runs good, would the court find against them?

Similarly if the car has been of road for some weeks or months the seller might argue he was unaware it wasn't roadworthy, or the op must have snapped the cable after they bought i, because it was working fine when they sold it
...

OP doesn't need proof. As the fault was discovered very quickly after purchase, the courts would almost certainly conclude that, on the balance of probabilities, the car was faulty when purchased.