Question about whether Executor can end a council tenancy without obtaining probate.

[Gav1975]

Would appreciate any help on this as getting contradicting answers.
Can an executor of a will serve a notice to quit (4 weeks) on a council tenancy without obtaining probate?
Seems ridiculous if you have to wait for probate as it can take 6 To 9 months or longer. Paying the rent and empty council flat unused and empty during that time.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It was the reference role of the Public Trustee that caught me. I didn't that and I worked for the Public Trust Office as it then was for a period of my life albeit not in the Trust Division.

England - landlord Orbit is an English social landlord

Rules are different in Wales following Renting Homes Wales Act 2016 and I don't know anything about rules in Scotland or NI

Is that UK advice?

Thanks very much for your reply. I was imagining having to wait months for probate and still paying rent on an empty flat. From what is a very small estate that I wouldn't think requires probate.

Late to the thread but if the deceased died leaving a will the answer is yes because the tenancy vests in the executors so they can serve a NTQ

Technically it isn't the same if they died intestate as the tenancy vests in the Public Trustee unless and until Letters of Administration are taken out so the landlord would normally serve a NTQ on the personal reps and Public Trustee. However many will accept a NTQ from next of kin, even though legally they shouldn't.

Orbit should accept your NTQ.
Sorry for your loss

Served a notice to quit yesterday so hopefully it is accepted without any problems.
Unlikely probate will be needed due to the low monetary value. Won't have access to the bank balance until I can provide death cert.
Thanks for the replies.

We gave notice when my DM passed, on the forms I ignored the boxes about probate/grant of representation and just stated next to these neither were being sought (estate value so low neither were needed). They wrote to me asking for the above several times but I kept stating the same thing. In the end they accepted this and we had four weeks from then to hand back. We were particularly keen to do this as my DM was on several benefits, all of which stopped the day she died so her rent went back up to full and ate what was left of the estate (she was very proud that she had 9+months in rent banked and kept telling us we had plenty of time to sort the house bless her). The tenancy did not end on her death, only formal notice did this (but each council may have different rules).

It took over a year just to get the code here. Probate itself after the issuing of the code was a few weeks. Then you are supposed to advertise in the gazette for a couple of months to see whether debtors come out of the woodwork before distributing funds

We applied for probate for my aunt in October - the solicitor has said that she can’t even begin to chase HMRC for an update until 16 weeks after the paperwork is uploaded onto their system (by then - not even from when she initially added it to the system!) And we haven’t heard anything yet… for a not particularly complicated case.

Maybe different regions have different times? The solicitor certainly noted that the timescales for contacting HMRC used to be 12 weeks but had gone up to 16 and she was worried that it wouldn’t be too long before they went up again…

@Bromptotoo Yes it took several months to get paperwork together and I was settling in for the long haul, but everything came back quickly. A solicitor did the paperwork so I’m not sure if that helped, but I was flabbergasted!

You might not need probate of the deceased did not own a property or other large assets, and the cash in their bank is under a certain amount

FYI, we got probate on a fairly simple estate ( that included a house) in 2 weeks last July.

The tenancy will be terminated as soon s the HA get the death certificate. You should be given until the end of the tenancy period to clear the property - usually 28 days.

If probate is needed and it was 3 weeks that's unexpected but good to know.
My neighbour's family waited over a year quite recently.

That's interesting and suggests the Probate Service has improved markedly in recent months.

I assume though you mean three weeks from lodging the papers rather than from the date of death?

Took us at least a year to get our ducks in a row before we could apply for probate for my Mother.

I don’t know where you’re getting 6-9 mths for probate from . Ours was 3 weeks in October.

Orbit are a big outfit and whenever I've dealt with them professionally, they funded some debt work I was involved with, they're pretty good.

Try again tomorrow when the bereavement team are in work.

I'm sure the person at the housing association did not know the legalities. I did not need probate when my DH died, as it is only needed over a certain amount of money. There were still people, such as his employer and bank, who said I needed probate to sort out his money.
Most people who need probate are home owners and very few Council tenants would have enough assets to need probate.

It is the executor's job to ensure that the deceased's finances are taken care of in the best way for the beneficiaries, and ending the tenancy would be one of the things they should be doing, along with cancelling utilities and so on.

Any possessions in the property shouldn't be disposed of though, unless they are of no value to anybody and no-one is likely to want them.

That's very helpful thanks. I think the person I spoke to at the HA was not familiar with the subject. Weekend staff so no specialist staff available to be transferred to.

Everyone I know whose parents lived in council houses were given 3 days to clear the house after the death of the surviving parent. There is such a shortage of social housing I can't understand why a provider would leave a home empty. I always thought 3 days was harsh, but I could understand why the council was so strict.

Yes I looked on the shelter site and made a note of the deed to surrender.
It's possible the person I spoke to at Orbit Housing got it wrong saying probate is required.
The details have been passed to the bereavement team so hopefully they can clarify what is required.
Thanks.

The executor or administrator can give notice to end the tenancy without probate being passed, or if there is neither, the HA can serve a notice to quit which gives four weeks to empty the property and wrap up any utilities connected to the property etc. Either is standard. If they haven’t done so already then it’s likely to be an oversight / somebody has dropped the ball.

There's no succession. It's a council flat managed by Orbit Housing.
Would have thought they would issue a notice to quit soon after the death of the tenant. Will speak to someone at Orbit who deals with bereavement hopefully tomorrow.
Don't really want to pay 6-9 months rent for an unused flat while waiting for probate.
No wonder there's a shortage if probate is required.

The Shelter website suggests a 'deed of surrender' can be signed before probate is granted. Have you contacted the council / HA?

I'd expect the Council to end the tenancy on death unless there's a possibility of succession rights.

There are any number of well publicised cases where councils have ended tenancies and removed or even destroyed the deceased's possessions while refusing to hand them to the executor/administrator until probate has been issued.