Son caught without renewed railcard

[TFW221]

Hi all, we had a letter a couple of weeks ago but son has been at Uni and only just opened it as he is at home this weekend.

Notice of intended prosecution. He was caught in July with no up to date railcard - it had expired 2 weeks earlier and hadn't realised. He bought another one there and then in front of the inspector and was told it would all be passed on to the appropriate people.

So we sent an email today apologising for the late response and attaching a picture of his railcard. We just sent one quickly as today was the date they needed to hear back from him.

I am thinking we should send a follow up one as the letter asks for any mitigating circumstances. He has ADHD and though he tries hard to be organised - he is forgetful/ loses things and he was in the middle of getting himself sorted for Uni and this just slipped through the net. He is furious with himself for being so stupid.

Any advice of whether he should send a follow up email would be appreciated, and how to word things. I haven't been in this situation before so not sure how to go about it.

Thank you for reading

I have seen at least one which was about an expired railcard and the person offered to pay the difference on the spot with the full fare (think she still got the prosecution notice)

I have seen the argument online that under the Act that governs the railways bringing private prosecutions, for it to be a crime, there needs to be intent to defraud, rather than error.

I think that’s a subset of the issue of using private prosecutions. It’s the version that’s in the news but I think the issue is the same for other offences where they leap to prosecution first.

If the letter was sent a couple of weeks ago it may predate the ruling so I would send the mitigating circumstances letter and wait to see what happens.

I don't think ADHD is a good defence.
The issue really is - did the inspector say that buying a Railcard on the spot would mean his ticket (with Railcard discount) is now valid?

Is this actually the case - i.e. can you legitimately buy a Railcard on the spot to apply to your ticket if your existing one is out of date? From what I've seen you're not actually clear on that.

Find that out, find out whether the inspector told him that would sort it. Going on about being forgetful will get you nowhere imo.

My daughter had this happen to her. It was just after lockdown and she hadn't been anywhere on the train for the best part of a year. They don't send any reminders about the card expiring, which would be quite useful! Her card had expired a week earlier. She begged her case at the station to the inspector and nothing further was heard about it.

The saving she had falsely made on the journey amounted to 80p...

We’ve stopped using the trains. They’re so bad. Last weekend we were left stranded for 3 hours at a rural station where they had no WiFi or real time train updates. (Apparently WiFi was down!)

Our booked train was mysteriously cancelled and the next one was delayed. And delayed. And delayed. There were no facilities at the station and no buses.

We booked a taxi due it being so cold and having little chilly children. No food, drink or toilets. It cost £80 to get home.

GWR refuse to refund us the taxi cost stating a train was on its way albeit very very late.

The person at the station was so blasé and uninterested!

Hope you get it sorted @TFW221

We’re getting to the point where a third of the population could end up diagnosed with ADHD. I have it myself so that is not me being cynical but realistic: many of DD’s school mates have it, a third of the kids I tutor have it…

ADHD makes keeping on top of things incredibly difficult but I don’t know to what extent we can expect bending the rules of major institutions like this. When I was late filing my tax return, certainly ADHD will have played a part in that but I still feel I have to take responsibility for it and pay the fine etc. I don’t think mortgage lenders are going to be allowing missed payments down to ND.

It’s a tough situation but if they let your DS off due to his ADHD re the railcard please make sure he doesn’t think this’ll work for everything. He needs a really good calendar system with reminders for everything important. If he doesn’t have the function to do this he needs to go to student support and take all help available to manage things.

I wonder if a line saying that would be useful - "I had no intention to defraud and am sincerely sorry for the error I made"

It doesn't help your son OP but I don't understand why railcard don't email you when your card is about to expire like every other company that wants your money does!

I had a near miss recently when I bought tickets from a person and not a machine. Fortunately for me, the ticket office lady asked to see my card and so I realised it had expired. If I'd bought the ticket online as I usually do, I probably wouldn't have realised and could have been in a similar situation.

I agree with @INeedNewShoes, I too have ADHD and have bills to pay, and cards to renew and I put them in my calendar and write down when they are due so I do not forget. Unfortunately, you cannot use ADHD as a reason to forget to renew the railcard. Your son's an adult at the end of the day and has responsibilities. Just send the email and tell him to be more aware and to write everything down that needs to be renewed in future.

You can’t buy it at the point you are showing the ticket. The OP’s DS is in the wrong here. The issue is whether jumping straight to a private prosecution which would give him a criminal record is excessive.

Back in my student days if you were caught without a ticket, which eh hem, erm, I occasionally was, you just gave the ticket collector or revenue protection bloke a false name and address, usually that of another halls of residence address - and that was it.

Not advocating ticket fraud, but why did he give them his details?

This. It's a ridiculous overreaction on their part. And as pp said, their heavy handed approach in taking people to court is now getting attention on social media, so they might back off. I would emphasise the short period of time since his last card expired and hope for the best.

Thanks, good to be clear about that. Shame he was talked into it then (and presumably wasn't able to offer to pay the full cost of the ticket instead?) - I wonder what he was told about the benefits of buying a new Railcard if it wasn't going to apply there and then?

I would have thought before it gets to court there will be an option to plead guilty, there won't be an actual court appearance, if you plead guilty one JP will sign off on a whole pile of fines in one sitting.

I can’t believe in 2024 they’re even allowing people to buy tickets without scanning Railcards first. Which would then alert the customer to “railcard expired”

There’s been reports of people buying tickets with Railcards in good faith and then boarding trains only to find out they used their Railcard too early in the morning. Surely at this point the ticket shouldn’t be sold in the first place stating “Sorry we cannot use your Railcard for trains between 7am - 9.30am” or whatever it is

Honestly our train system is a flipping mess!

Was he given the option of paying a Penalty Fare (cost of not traveling with a valid ticket)? (Assuming he was in an area where these apply)?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/buying-a-ticket/penalty-fares/

Exactly. And they are much more expensive than other European countries. Here you have a railcard but it might or might NOT be valid during peak time etc. The Guardian was reporting about the current TFL hacking which still hasn't been resloved and students who have to go to campus any time whenever their timetable gets updated and with student cards still not working some wanted to drop out of their course as it was the final straw.

it should NOT be legitimate as you have Travelled - ie boarded the train - without a valid ticket/discount.

@Theresacatonmyhead said it so much better!

I shall buy my xmas train ticket home soon. Using a 2 together card. Mine expires end October. but i won't renew it until mid December (its digital so is immediate issue) as thats when i will be using it.

Its perfectly fine to buy a ticket in advance with a railcard, that you don't have currently, but will before you travel.

DS2 had similar a few weeks ago, he had bought a ticket using his disabled persons railcard but when the inspector asked to see it he realised it had expired. He also has ADHD and as the card lasts 3 years he'd forgotten.

He was allowed to purchase a full price ticket and we then renwed his railcard for the return journey.

Get him to set a reminder on his phone now for when his current one expires... a week before and the day before. Its not going to sort this problem, but hopefully should prevent a reoccurrence.

I hope you get it sorted. I did similar at 17.. I forgot my railcard. Thankfully the inspector was understanding.my mother met me off my train with my railcard. I was just warned to be more careful!

I would definitely attach a copy of the expired railcard and evidence of his disability.

I really wouldn't bother, the train companies have a right to prosecute themselves rather than going via the CPS, its called the single justice procedure, there is no court, its just a glorified fining procedure, he pleads guilty and pays a fine and that's it - no court appearance, no jail time, just a procedural thing, pay up and move on.