SEN school and aggression

[Arthurnewyorkcity]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in legal or sen.
My son has started at a complex needs school. Another child is very aggressive and has hurt my son 3 days in a row. Now obviously this other child needs support and is entitled to an education that accommodates their disabilities also but my question is, at what point does the school say we cannot meet needs? Can they say that? I know a child can't be excluded on a disability grounds and nor should they be but surely the school have a responsibility to keep all children safe and prevent harm to others? If a child is acting aggressive maybe it isnt the right fit for them? It is not enough to say 'its a school where this happens'.

I am really hopeful the other child is just anxious and their behaviours will calm as they settle as its only the first week, but if they don't, what should i/the school be doing?? I know this might be thinking ahead but I want my baby to be happy and safe so finding out what's what in case needed in future

I work in an sen school. Yes an sen school can say they 'can't meet needs' but it is a long process as they can't just permanently exclude as aggression is likely to be caused by sen. The school must try lots of strategies and do everything they possibly can to help manage/reduce the aggression. I have seen lots of children be moved classes (aggressive ones and ones who are the target) to try and reduce aggressive incidents but this is unlikely to happen after the first week. If it keeps happening you could request a class move.

My son is in a complex needs school and if he was hurt 3 days in a row by another child, especially the same child, he would not be returning until the staff assured me they were keeping them completely separated.

II don’t know what the school is allowed to do about exclusion, but they have a duty to keep your son safe. It is not ok for them to just say that they are an SEN school so it happens, 3 times is too many especially in one week. Ask for a meeting with the head and request the plan to safeguard your DS.

my son is very sweet natured. Why should he be the one to lose access to his education when he wouldn't hurt a fly. I do hear what you are saying though and is likely to be the outcome until I am assured something is happening. Fought so hard for this school and this is week 1. I am really really hoping it's anxieties of the other children and will settle.

I also think sen is sometimes used as an excuse for the aggression. Yes absolutely it likely is related to sen, but it can also be learnt behaviour. Schools need more powers in these situations.

I feel for all involved, including the child who is feeling so bad they're lashing out but ultimately boy is my priority.

I used to work In a Sen school. We never excluded a child no matter how dangerous their behaviour was. Staff would go to hospital and other kids would get hurt. There will always be really challenging kids In every class. These should be one to one or two to one but the reality was that we did not have enough staff and even if we did they would throw things that would still hit people so you couldn't stop it altogether anyway.

Maybe I sound awful as if I was a mum to a child with those needs, I would absolutely be desperate for the break/school but how can that be allowed? One child's right shouldn't trump the whole classes. Something needs to change. Do you feel if their was proper funding/more staff those incidents would have been prevented or still no?

You are right it shouldn't be allowed but this is what happens. Like i said even if we had enough staff some children and staff still get hurt as you can be on top of them all of the time and they will throw thing or spit/kick and that impacts everyone in the class. I was one to one with a child with very aggressive behaviour she ran from me and managed to attack a member of staff. Got her to the floor and really hurt her. I won't say how but it was very upsetting and I could not get her off. They more quieter children are often terrified by witnessing this behaviour in class and I felt very sorry for them. Some of them would shake and wet themselves when the others went into crisis it was so hard.

While incidents couldn't be prevented 100%(shit always happens) , yes it would massively help. Having a 2 to 1, rather than a 1 to 1, the possibility of even smaller class sizes, hiring well trained and experienced staff, better/more facilities for the children, the list is endless.

To answer you original question, yes even an SEN school can eventually say "we can't meet needs" but it is a very lengthy process that involves a lot of paperwork and proof that they have tried everything they can/any advice given/EHCP and that they haven't worked.

Thank you for your replies. The comment about children wetting themselves in fear hurt my heart. How dreadfully sad.
I will ask the school for a chat about how they're keeping ALL children safe with the focus on my ds. I really hope these are just new school teething issues and I am fearing the worst. I like to be mentally prepared as then I feel slightly more in control in my otherwise very chaotic life.

I live in fear that it's my son that's being talked about as he can be aggressive as demand avoidance and he has very low comprehension. I would be very concerned if I found out he was targeting a child and I as the parent of the aggressor would want to work with the school to try and ensure another child wasn't being hurt. Even if it meant my son was removed. It's not unreasonable to ask what is being done. But also... What are the options for the aggressive child if he's already in a school for complex needs?

By removed I meant from the vacinity of the child being hurt. Not removed from the school.

Im really not sure. Of course children deserve an education but other children deserve to be safe. I'd like to think maybe more robust ehcps outlining staff ratios. A class which had the children who physically lash out altogether. Maybe even 'fun' activities with the children together so they associate positivity with each other. A calm down style room maybe?

I know if I was the parent of a child who hurt others, I'd want and need the break as I was probably being hurt outside school. I'd also think no kid should be hurt from my child and if I could prevent that then I'd also look at moving my ds (and I do mean schools). I couldn't happily send my child to school knowing another kid was likely to get hurt. I would also query whether the setting was right.

In my ideal world I would like those with a diagnosis that led to aggressive behaviour to go to sen schools specifically for those needs, with more robust interventions to support them and then children without harmful behaviours could be safe at school. As that isn't going to happen, I'm not sure, but i think the bare minimum should be trying a different class within the school to see if that helped

My cousin is a teacher and has an aggressive child like this who is hitting her, other teachers and the kids. Hard. He swears and throws things. There's nothing they can do, so she's about to quit her job. Yes I feel sorry for the kid, but it's ridiculous this is allowed for such disruptive and violent behaviour.

But there just are barely any sen schools. Getting a place is absolutely horrifically hard.

What is the ratio of staff to students? I misunderstood as I thought you said it was a sen school. What have the school said they will do to protect your child?

No. There were 2 people between an aggressor and his victim but he bided his time and was like lightning.

I hope it's just settling in being the cause, has your ds enjoyed the school other than that OP?

It is a sen complex needs school, sorry if that wasn't clear. I was answering what I'd like to happen and thinking in an ideal world... but in an ideal world they'd also be funding to make things happen.
He is happily going on the bus in the mornings but coming home in tears. My son is non verbal but if he was really scared I'd know. I am just thinking ahead, I am truly hopeful this stops. I only know as his communication books tells me.. but to read a note saying 'it's a school where this happens' isn't ok to me. I understand the fight for sen provision... we had to fight too and now I just feel a bit deflated thinking will this work.
I know theres not spaces but if a child is that violent, will they be able to learn or are they just being 'held' with the school acting like babysitters almost? I don't know. I'm not an sen teacher, just a mum trying her best. I'm trying to imagine myself in other parent/child's position and it's difficult from every angle.
Some of my mum friends have children like that and I really feel for them. I know they feel awful when they've been told their child has hurt someone and even more so that the child feels that badly
Fingers crossed it is just settling in and if you have little ones at school, wishing them all a good year ahead

Havent the parents of the victims of the violent behaviour complained to the school? If my child had been at the end of this thuggish behaviour, I would be all over the school. Can you report to the LEA? Even if anonymous, so that they can consider removing the child. One persons needs shouldn’t trump the needs of the rest of the class and staff.

Remove him to where?

Just to update, other child was moved classes

Violent children will have that school named on the EHCP as your dc does. It’s a legal document. Obviously it can be amended at review but the school must try to improve behaviour and keep other dc safe. Complex needs are not the same for every dc. It could be there isn’t another suitable school. A school near me takes autistic and dc with behavioural needs across a broad spectrum. It’s probably impossible to ensure they don’t misbehave. Maybe the dc needs a school like this?

Unpopular opinion: This is one of the reasons I didn't send my child to SEN school. I ended up home educating. I'd rather they go to mainstream with accomodations than SEN school because I have to protect my child from harm - whether it's done by a child with SN or an NT child.

Accountability or consequences are much harder to enforce in SEN school too due to the very nature of the school. My child struggles more in a crowd of SN kids (anywhere) than NT kids due to the unpredictable and often chaotic and aggressive environment.

Home Education ended up being the best option for us because so we could provide an actual suitable environment at home but go out to socialise.

I can assure you violent children will not last in mainstream. They will be excluded. There is a reason why behavioural schools exist! Not everyone can home educate and some dc attack their parents and siblings. Home ed is not the answer for everyone. It cannot be.

I meant I'd rather my dc go to mainstream than SEN school for the reasons I mentioned and what the OP is dealing with. I didn't say anywhere that SEN children should not go to SEN school - I clearly know why they exist!

I was also clearly talking about what was the best option for us, not everyone re: home ed. I'm not sure where I said everyone can home ed and that it's the answer for all. Obviously, some dc attacking their parents and siblings in their own environment don't affect my dc but some dc attacking teachers and students in class/school affects my dc. If we're out and about and it happens anywhere else, we take my dc away from that environment but we can't just do so at school. Hence...

I was talking about my dc!

We had to remove our son from his school for exactly this reason. They couldn’t keep him safe and we couldn’t send him in to be hurt every day. We homeschooled for many years and the impact on our family socially, emotionally and financially is huge.

By nature children with complex needs can have very unpredictable behaviour, my son was very laid back and compliant when he was younger at 14 with puberty hitting he can now be aggressive he has also been agresee his school I working very hard with him and me to control.his behaviour.