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Have I been hoodwinked into signing a document?

109 replies

MrsHench · 26/08/2024 18:02

Any legal/citizen advice welcome-TIA
In hindsight I feel really stupid for doing this.
Why am I feeling duped? A Colleague of mine asked me to sign a personal document for her during work time. She said I was just witnessing her signature. But she kinda poo pooed it when i asked what it was, as if it was none of my business. I think it's to do with her new flat which she's moved into recently. I obliged but then had to put my home address also which I wasn't really happy about. I was going to put my workplace address but she just laughed it off as if i was stupid. I've only been in the job 2 months and now I'm wondering why she didn't ask one of the other colleagues who she's know much longer. Why me and why not wait til the next day? What was the urgency with this?
We hardly know each other but she has been training me for the last 2 months. She's very good at her job, efficient, confident, authoritative and i don't think money is an issue with her from what i gather. But why now am I feeling uneasy about this? I have a young family, a full time job, work hard but I feel she pounced, caught me off guard so to speak. I am very stressed!
I should've asked to see the document, asked more questions after all she's asked me for my signature and my home address.
I felt she should've been more transparent on this situation too. Am I right to be concerned, worried? Please help!

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 29/08/2024 07:42

2Old2Tango · 29/08/2024 07:34

I too would like to know if she signed it first in your presence. If she didn't then you weren't actually witnessing her signature.

This is true and is the proper practice, but it’s known that occasionally (cough) a person will sign a document on their own desk then leave it on the other person’s desk, say.

Sotiredmjmmy · 29/08/2024 07:48

Panic over @MrsHench

You now know it was a TR1, totally normal not to read it or know the ins and outs of the details, you were just witnessing her signature. The whole point is that you are not involved in the transaction itself and you do not need to know the details of it to any extent at all.

The only lesson to take away from this is for yourself to be clearer next time that you are just witnessing and nothing more before you sign something. Your colleague hasn’t done anything wrong, she just didn’t want you to know some of the details and that’s entirely normal as you don’t need to know them at all for what she was asking of you as witness.

Next time if you find yourself in a similar position and you’re not comfortable with it just say no. She didn’t ask you to do anything she shouldn’t, at least half the issue here is your misunderstanding which is fine so next time with anything similar just refuse.

Unopenedpackofmenssocks · 29/08/2024 07:50

Sotiredmjmmy · 29/08/2024 07:48

Panic over @MrsHench

You now know it was a TR1, totally normal not to read it or know the ins and outs of the details, you were just witnessing her signature. The whole point is that you are not involved in the transaction itself and you do not need to know the details of it to any extent at all.

The only lesson to take away from this is for yourself to be clearer next time that you are just witnessing and nothing more before you sign something. Your colleague hasn’t done anything wrong, she just didn’t want you to know some of the details and that’s entirely normal as you don’t need to know them at all for what she was asking of you as witness.

Next time if you find yourself in a similar position and you’re not comfortable with it just say no. She didn’t ask you to do anything she shouldn’t, at least half the issue here is your misunderstanding which is fine so next time with anything similar just refuse.

Well, she actually did ask OP to sign to say she had witnessed her signature. But OP did not witness her sign. However this is common practice really as people don’t tend to understand that “witness” means “actually watch you hold the pen”.

CheekySwan · 29/08/2024 07:56

Is she buying someone out? An ex husband or partner? I have had to witness a document for this before for the transfer of deeds

I've also been a guarantor and you need to provide ID for that if I remember correctly

You said she seems OK, I would maybe just ask her, tell her you don't need to prior or know any details but just can she tell you what the nature of the form you signed was, just laugh it off and say I didn't just sign over all my worldly goods or my soul to you, something along them lines

Sparklfairy · 29/08/2024 07:58

invisiblecat · 26/08/2024 19:44

If you have been coerced or influenced into signing a document, then it is invalid anyway. Don't worry.

Coercion needs threats or undue pressure. Do you mean misled?

Nottodaythankyou123 · 29/08/2024 08:01

HungryLittleCrocodile · 27/08/2024 11:01

Yes it's almost certainly THIS @MrsHench ^

There has to be a cooling off period for this. Surely....? Maybe someone who knows more about this can clarify....?

Please make the most of this and tell her you want to retract your signature/ permission!

It’s almost certainly not this, being a guarantor requires more than just a signature.

As PP has said, if you watched her sign then you’ve witnessed her signature, in which case you wouldn’t need to read the document - and she may not want a colleague knowing personal details about her purchase (mortgage amounts etc). All you’re doing is authenticating that she’s signed it.

Discombobble · 29/08/2024 08:03

You’ve been asked to witness her signature, ie. that it was indeed her who signed the document. You don’t need to know what was in the document, you were just witnessing her signature. You add your address so that if necessary you can be traced to prove that you are a real person. Who would you ask to witness your signature if you needed to? Would you expect to share the entire details with them.

Tereseta · 29/08/2024 08:06

larklane17 · 28/08/2024 21:47

This is a copy of a TR1 form.
Does it look famiiar?
I can't see where you need to sign as a witness to her signature.

I think as @purplecorkheart suggests upthread, you might want to speak to the Land Registry. Or HR.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/526516/TR1.pdf

Panel 12 of the tr1 is where the words of assetation are added. The wording for the execution and witness vary depending on the parties to the deed and will be added from a selection in the guidance.
If the form you signed OP looks like a TR1 then you will have been a witness. Unless you owned the property she is buying or she was transferring it to you there is no other benefit to signing this form in another way.

Life2Short4Nonsense · 29/08/2024 08:15

I think the problem here is not that OP had to read the document (she didn't need to) or even physically witness this coworker signing the document, but OP does have the right to know the purpose of a signature. It's not okay for one coworker to just shove a piece of paper under someone's nose and demand they sign it while refusing to answer what it is even about.

OP still had the right to know the basic gist of what she was signing. I'd keep a close eye on this coworker from now on and not automatically go along with whatever she says, especially when you have doubts.

MrsHench · 29/08/2024 08:21

@Larklane no this form doesn't look familiar and as you say there's no witness section.
The one that @purplecorkheart posted looked similar in layout but it's a blurred screenshot so can't see the wording.

OP posts:
Anonanonandon · 29/08/2024 08:23

You have learned an important lesson here. So no more to be said there.
If it is a Land Registry transfer document, I could understand her coyness as, I believe, it shows the price she is paying and she may not want you to have that info. Otherwise your name and address would be required and a work address may not be acceptable.

MrsHench · 29/08/2024 08:35

Just to add to this, the co-worker moved into her purchased flat months ago, well before I joined the Company. ls it the case that Land registry, TR1 docs would have been signed & sealed, completed before she moved in or not?

OP posts:
Roseshavethorns · 29/08/2024 09:28

To be a guarantor these days you would have to provide an awful lot of information not just your name and address (id, ni number, proof of employment and income etc) if you have not provided that then I wouldn't worry about that aspect.
Did you see her sign or at least see that it was her name against the signature? If so you really don't have anything to worry about.
If the signature box was empty or had a different name then I would be concerned.

Anonym00se · 29/08/2024 09:35

Yahoo968 · 26/08/2024 18:05

Ask to read the document asap.
I think she has got you to sign as a guarantor.
In other words she doesn't pay her rent you have to pay.

If she was putting OP as a guarantor she’d need a lot more information than just her name and address. They ask for bank statements and proof of earnings and all kinds of things.

I witnessed POA forms yesterday and had to put my name and address. Most forms will say “signature of witness”. Do you recall seeing that anywhere OP? I’d probably just ask your colleague to see the form again to put your mind at rest. In future don’t even sign anything if you don’t know exactly what it is.

SensibleSigma · 29/08/2024 10:43

At first I felt OP was overreacting from lack of personal experience, however it’s a poor show on the part of a more experienced colleague to not check she was comfortable with what she was being asked to do.

However, witnessing a signature is a perfectly normal practice. It could be a will, an investment, a power of attorney application- all of which would be confidential. The only bit you need to see is the signature.

I think we’ve all got very aware of data protection and feel weird with our personal information being used for something that isn’t about us. Which would perhaps explain why she didn’t keep a copy, as well.

Conniebygaslight · 29/08/2024 13:05

MrsHench · 26/08/2024 19:10

@BustyMcgoober yes definitely will need to ask her. I actually want to withdraw my name and address fully because of her unwillingness to share info. Totally annoyed with myself.

Whatever it is OP, she is bang out of order to do this to you. I think her vagueness and lateness in the day tells you she knew she was in the wrong too.

Conniebygaslight · 29/08/2024 13:06

SensibleSigma · 29/08/2024 10:43

At first I felt OP was overreacting from lack of personal experience, however it’s a poor show on the part of a more experienced colleague to not check she was comfortable with what she was being asked to do.

However, witnessing a signature is a perfectly normal practice. It could be a will, an investment, a power of attorney application- all of which would be confidential. The only bit you need to see is the signature.

I think we’ve all got very aware of data protection and feel weird with our personal information being used for something that isn’t about us. Which would perhaps explain why she didn’t keep a copy, as well.

But now she has the op's personal details.

SheilaFentiman · 29/08/2024 13:10

Those of us who witness/have documents witnessed at the drop of a hat can (though we shouldn’t) forget that not everyone knows what it means to witness.

She should have explained, but it’s not sinister that she didn’t.

SheilaFentiman · 29/08/2024 13:11

Conniebygaslight · 29/08/2024 13:06

But now she has the op's personal details.

Her home address, yes. Unless she scanned it, emailed it, deleted the email and shredded the original (she apparently did the latter, at least)

DreamW3aver · 29/08/2024 13:15

MrsHench · 29/08/2024 08:35

Just to add to this, the co-worker moved into her purchased flat months ago, well before I joined the Company. ls it the case that Land registry, TR1 docs would have been signed & sealed, completed before she moved in or not?

Are you generally anxious about things, why are you finding it hard to let this go, it's really a non event

You didn't want your co worker to know your address but thats happened now, move on and use your words in the future when you don't want to do something

invisiblecat · 29/08/2024 13:45

Sparklfairy · 29/08/2024 07:58

Coercion needs threats or undue pressure. Do you mean misled?

Yes, that's what I meant - I said coerced or influenced into signing. Being misled into signing it comes under being influenced, surely?

MrsHench · 29/08/2024 13:51

@DreamW3aver I wouldn't say anxious but definitely annoyed with myself for not being a bit more inquisitive. She babbled something to me, half showed me a document, sprung it in on me during work time. I was busy! Maybe she thought I owed her a favour. Who knows but definitely will learn from this.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 29/08/2024 13:53

MrsHench · 29/08/2024 13:51

@DreamW3aver I wouldn't say anxious but definitely annoyed with myself for not being a bit more inquisitive. She babbled something to me, half showed me a document, sprung it in on me during work time. I was busy! Maybe she thought I owed her a favour. Who knows but definitely will learn from this.

Or maybe she thought that it wasn't a big deal?

I feel you are assigning sinister motives to her - sounds like she did explain and show you the doc, albeit quickly - and why would she assume you were uncomfortable if you didn't ask more questions?

ilikecatsandponies · 29/08/2024 14:11

It's just an address though. My address is available online at the Land Registry, Companies House, for example, like many others. It's not medical information or bank card details.

DreamW3aver · 29/08/2024 15:50

ilikecatsandponies · 29/08/2024 14:11

It's just an address though. My address is available online at the Land Registry, Companies House, for example, like many others. It's not medical information or bank card details.

Random people can't look you up on the land registry though can they? And even if they could how is that relevant to another person who wants to keep their address to themselves?