Surely deceaseds' estates have to pay bills?

[ADress]

I am (reluctantly) a director of our residents' association. A small group of semi detached houses (freehold) with shared gardens and parking areas. We each pay a monthly service charge and use a managing agent to handle the administration.

The agents are pretty poor. It's just transpired that one of the houses hasn't paid since the owner died two years ago. The accounts department within the agent don't seem to think they need to pay as they are saying we need to wait for probate and that it isn't a problem because the house can't be sold until the debt is settled.

1. Probate has been granted and the house is now on the market
2. Surely it's not ok for an estate to just not pay bills? I am trying to understand what comms have been had, but presumably the gas and electricity companies don't just let things drift for two years? (Perhaps they do?)

I'm going round in circles with the agent, so I'm just trying to understand what could/ should be the right course of action.

Nope, not at all.

What if you couldn’t afford to do that?

We, as executors, had access to mums money. She paid her own bills, we just did the admin.

if DM hadn’t had any money, we would have had to wait until the house was sold.

@ADress if the deceased home is worth £800k, I’m pretty sure they would have had enough money in their bank to pay their factor fees.

@ADress i hope you continued with your plans and had a lovely day.

I met up with friends near Leicester Square and the tube and streets were unaffected.

Sorry posted on wrong thread.

If the person dies it would be usual to notify everyone and that probate is being applied for and who is dealing with the estate.

Bills are paid once probate is settled and the house is sold.

But it would be normal for rental contracts to stop on death and not amass a bill for two years on an empty property. Has no one emptied the house or moved items into storage if cheaper?

Gas, electric and water companies have standing charges that need to be paid whether the house is empty or not. Council tax also needs to be paid on empty houses.

My mum died five months ago. For various reasons out of my control (I'm not an executor) probate hasn't even been started yet. And if probate is complicated or contentious, it can go on forever.

It might end up that I have to take on probate as a beneficiary, if the executor of my mum's will renounces the role, as seems likely. There's no way I can find the money to pay mums debts until probate is over and the house is sold. Nor am I expected to.

I'm not quite sure who you're so irritated with, and why.

The estate should pay the bills, but only if there is money in the estate to pay the bills with. You may have to wait till the house is sold and claim from there, if there is nothing else in the estate to pay from.

I managed someone's estate. I was only prepared to pay anything their estate could cover. If the estate couldn't cover it, it wasn't going to get paid. Most people were actually really helpful and all the companies, bar one, just wrote the final amount off when I called them.

Actually when the executors contact these companies they will understand that the bills will need to wait until such time as the house is sold.

It sounds like you need some new managing agents for the association. I assume they are being paid for their services, when is their contract next renewed?

Any accounts, bills will be frozen until probate/letters of administration are granted. Just tell the gas elec, agents etc of the situation. The bank may pay the funeral costs if they believe there are sufficient funds. (They did for my mum). The executor should then determine who gets paid what based on the terms of the will. When you apply for probate you have to make declaration for IHT which means total value of the estate less debts, which should get paid first before the balance of the estate is distributed.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate

No.

And why should they? Executors may be individuals who don’t have ready cash, or they may be a small law firm.

Regarding your question on interest, surely all residents have something on this in their contracts eg “interest starts accruing at 2% over base rate if bills not settled within 30 days”

council tax is only payable 6 months after probate as been granted and the property may then still be exempt from council tax provided all furniture etc has been removed.

All bills are to be paid from the estate, executors do not pay personally and reclaim the money when probate has been granted.
my dm died this year and one of her bank accounts was transferred to me as the executor prior to the grant- some banks do this depending on the sum involved. I then used this money to pay outstanding bills eg her credit card, water, gas, electric, tax bill etc.

If your managing agents are useless, then change them for another agent. There is no need to put up with this. I've been in the same situation with managing agents and the community replaced them asap

Surely if the bills are not paid then the lease can be forfeited?

So they will have to settle the bill before any sale occurs.

Interest will be as detailed in the lease and the managing agents should be doing whatever is needed to ensure hill is paid (even if that's just ensuring the estate had it recorded/knows it's growing/forfeit lease if not paid eventually)

If you want to officially lodge the debt then send a letter to the executors with proof of debt - you could ask them to forward to the solicitor handling the sale for their attention when handling the transfer of funds. Include a clear breakdown of what is due -dates, amounts, what for etc and any material losses caused by late payment - loss of interest if it has been in savings etc. it would be poor form to add punitive interest or late payment fees.

If you mean can you lodge the debt as a charge on the property, I believe you would first have to go to small claims court and then pay £250 or so to have it lodged against the property at land registry. I don't know if the court would allow a claim against a deceased persons estate and the debt has only accrued after their death, which is not their negligence - it's not that they were refusing to pay before death.

I have worked in nursing homes and they wait to be paid any remaining fees owing after the estate is settled - they communicate with the executors meanwhile.

My sibling and I are co-executors and co-beneficiaries of my mother’s estate. Probate came through a couple of months ago in less than 4 weeks . If your late neighbour’s is a complex estate and has taken a while, this could suggest there are significant assets being dealt with.

We were given control of some money from her current account by the bank to pay ongoing service charges, utilities, funeral etc straight away. We are able to keep paying the service charges from the estate until the property is sold. I appreciate not every estate would have this spare but many might.

I think what you are doing is public-spirited running the residents’ association and I don’t understand why you are being given a hard time by some. If someone owned an £800k property outright it is quite possible that there is money in the estate that could be used to pay the debt. If it was me I would get the probate details of the executors and write politely but officially from the residents’ association expressing sympathy for their loss and say something along the lines of you’re not sure how efficient the managing agents have been and that they might not be aware of the outstanding bill (sounds nicer than debt) that needs to be paid so that the residents can continue to maintain the grounds. they are going to want it looking good for selling.

The executors just might not know they owe it and this is quicker and might solve it easier than trying to get the agents to do their job . It’s not the same as a big utility company that can more likely afford to wait.

No!

For gods sake I do wish people would only comment if they know what's going on. OP will get the money when the house sells, she just needs to write to the executors and make them aware of the debt

I am a director of a flat freehold company.

So I know about debt recovery from leaseholders.

By the sounds of it, this isn't a lease. These are detached freehold houses and this is a service charge to pay for upkeep of communal parking, greenspace, lighting etc

The situation is different when they die.

I doubt most utilty companies charge interest on what they're owed...or do they?

I think the residents will understand that it's different if someone dies (as opposed to someone just not paying).

I appreciate now this is a bit different as not a leasehold flat so can't forfeit the lease.

So it depends on the contract. And what it says about outstanding debts /whether attached to the house or person. Hopefully attached to house so one can enforce the debt when the estate wants to sell.

But the agents need to do their job and confirm what contract says and lay out options you can chose to take. If they aren't giving you any details change them for another (assuming you employ them?)