Problem with my neighbour - invasion of privacy

[Feebs7]

I've been digging a hole next to my garden boundary wall, to see how deep the foundation goes, as I may be doing some landscaping work - depending on what I find with this garden wall.

My neighbour noticed I was digging a hole - and has sent me an email to ask me to provide them with all information about the building work.

I have not employed any builder and so far - all I am doing is digging a hole. I verbally told my neighbour this.

I finished digging the hole, placed a board over it to cover it up, and then I left my home for a couple of hours.

I came back to find the board I had carefully placed to cover the hole, had been dislodged and the hole exposed.

I am not sure how my neighbour did this (probably with a long stick over my fence), but I feel like I am under their surveillance and that they have totally invaded my privacy.

I have no idea what to do, as I want to keep good relations with this neighbour, as they may need to be involved if the landscaping work goes ahead.

However, I genuinely feel like I can't even dig a hole in my own garden without them invading my privacy.

I don't know what to do - as I feel like they are breathing down my neck, and that I can't even sneeze without them want to know why.

" If you are right and nothing goes wrong it will just be a useless bit of paper."

Not sure what you mean...

I'm employing a structural engineer, to avoid the wall collapsing.
Also, the builder I employ will be insured to carry out the work following the structural engineers design.

I've already told the neighbour I will send him the structural engineers/surveyor statement to confirm the intended work is not a party wall matter.

Therefore, as I will be employing professionals, who say they will carry out the work safely - and they will be insured to do so - and this is not a Party Wall matter - then I would have though I have acted with due diligence, care etc.

I'm not sure what else I can do!
Why would anyone have cause to sue me?

I shall clarify:

You have already done something that could - if you have been badly advised - cause damage to your neighbour's property. Digging a hole where you have dug it could have destabilised the wall. If you have acted reasonably it won't.

Your neighbour is justified in investigating what you are doing because he has nothing apart from your verbal assurance that all will be well. That butters no parsnips.

So you give him a signed statement taking full responsibility for your actions and assuring him that any work will be done by fully qualified professionals who hold Public Liability Insurance as well as Professional Indemnity Insurance to ensure that ammends are made in the event that there's any damage. You will not embark on any programme of works without first verifying whether the party wall act applies and will follow the rules of that act if it does. You will provide documentation to him of any relevant assessments that give information about how the plans might affect his property or confirm that his property will be unaffected, including all relevant evidence if you are given professional advice that the work is too minor for the Party Wall Act to apply.

Writing that letter costs you nothing and gives your neighbour the reassurance he needs.

It's simply laying out what you are planning to do anyway so doesn't give you any additional obligations.

Your neighbour gets peace of mind knowing that if you break your written promises and use a cowboy builder who doesn't do things properly, don't bother with the structural survey, or do anything that causes damage, he can (and should) sue the pants off you, and that letter can be used as evidence against you. However obviously it will never come to that because you will be acting honourably, so the letter will never be used in that way.

"You have already done something that could - if you have been badly advised - cause damage to your neighbour's property. Digging a hole where you have dug it could have destabilised the wall. If you have acted reasonably it won't."

Perhaps I need to fill in the hole and concrete it back over?

I was advised by party wall surveyors and structural engineers that trial pits are needed - before they can give me a quote for the work and to confirm if the Party Wall Act applies - so I was just following their verbal advice.

The thing is, my neighbour probably has taken photos of the hole I dug by now, by dislodging the board that was covering the hole - to sue me personally - if something were to happen to the wall.

So I'm not sure what best to do about this hole I have dug now.

Oh good grief, get over yourself.

"You have already done something that could - if you have been badly advised - cause damage to your neighbour's property. Digging a hole where you have dug it could have destabilised the wall. If you have acted reasonably it won't."

Digging an exploratory hole to determine how far down the foundations go is not going to cause damage to the party wall.

"Your neighbour is justified in investigating what you are doing because he has nothing apart from your verbal assurance that all will be well. That butters no parsnips."

What exactly do you mean by "justified"? He is certainly able to ask the OP what she is doing but he is certainly not entitled to demand anything of her.

The law in this country is that unless building work requires a written notice then nothing in writing is required. PPs here have just said that it might be beneficial, as a courtesy, to inform the neighbour in writing what is happening.

But she certainly isn't required to in any way at all.

"So you give him a signed statement... blah, blah blah, load of unnecessary rubbish that is not required"

Just as an example of how bad this paragraph was:

"...including all relevant evidence if you are given professional advice that the work is too minor for the Party Wall Act to apply."

The Party Wall Act very clearly states when it applies and when it does not. "All relevant evidence", really? All it needs is a simple statement from the OP saying

"Hey dude, I'm digging down no lower than the foundations of the wall"

In fact, she doesn't need to even do that. She doesn't need to do anything at all in that situation. In this country even that sort of information isn't required.

People here are just saying that it might be nice if she does it just out of courtesy.

"Your neighbour gets peace of mind knowing that if you break your written promises and use a cowboy builder who doesn't do things properly, don't bother with the structural survey, or do anything that causes damage, he can (and should) sue the pants off you, and that letter can be used as evidence against you."

If the OP does anything that affects the neighbour's property then, yes, they can claim for damages.

"...and that letter can be used as evidence against you."

I'm sorry, but for evidence of what? If the OP were to spell out in excruciating detail what her plans were, what difference would that make?

In this country there are strict rules on what work can be done on boundaries and what work needs to be notified to different parties. If the work does not need to be notified then the OP is under no obligation whatsoever to notify her neighbour.

People here have just been suggesting that she keeps her neighbour broadly informed of the nature of the works that she is planning to undertake just as a courtesy.

I would suggest that the previous poster is being rather melodramatic.

Frankly, do nothing about the hole.

If you had dug it deeper than the foundations then that would be one thing. But just digging it to the depth of the foundations is no problem at all.

So many differing opinions!

I think that OpizpuHeuvHiyo is of the same mindset as my neighbour - and so it's useful to understand my neighbours view, so I know how to manage them.

My neighbour - like OpizpuHeuvHiyo - wants me to provide them with a load of Party Wall information, (drawings etc) when I do not intend to invoke the Party Wall act with my proposed work.

My standpoint has been more similar to Another2Cats.
i.e. I didn't get anywhere near the foundations, as they are too deep, and so not contravening any laws. And the whole purpose of the trial pit was to establish that there was deep foundations, and so a Party Wall would not be required.

Obviously - if the wall collapsed while I was digging a hole - then I would need to call my insurance to cover the accidental damage!

But I will be filling 'the hole' as soon as I can buy some cement!! 🙄

FYI - my neighbour is a complete hypocrite.....they have been planting a load of dense fast growing trees in their front garden - in close proximity blocking light from the only front window in my flat....the trees are now over 10 meters high and overhang and drip rain down my wall - causing wetness to my walls - the roots are spreading into my front garden - and as my front garden is a retaining front garden - some might argue that their trees compromise the retaining wall structure.

But who knows, they may have planted trees with shallow roots - but like them (and my hole) I have no way of knowing .

I have held off complaining that their 'hedges' - as I just want an easy life - but this has not worked....and now I feel like a complete doormat.

@Feebs7 "..the trees are now over 10 meters high and overhang and drip rain down my wall"

Overhanging trees are another regular issue on MN. This is an additional lever for you to use.

Where branches from a neighbour's tree overhang your land then you can cut back the branches as long as you don't enter the neighbour's land to do it. Also, as long as there isn't a Tree Preservation Order in existence.

This is because overhanging branches are a "nuisance" and you have a right to take steps to abate any nuisance that you are suffering.

You don't need his permission to do this - if it's overhanging your property or the roots are going under your ground then it's a "nuisance" and you can remove them back to your boundary line. You'll have to do the work yourself or pay to get it done.

Perhaps, when you are writing to him to let him know that your work doesn't engage the Party Wall Act you might also want to add on to the bottom of the letter something like this:

In addition, there are several trees on your property where the branches are overhanging onto my property. These overhanging branches are causing a nuisance and I intend to abate this nuisance by cutting back the overhanging branches to the boundary line.

Please let me know if you would like the branches returned to you, otherwise I will undertake to dispose of them.

Yes - sadly had to invest in buying a branch lopper and have been cutting the neighbours trees back for a couple of years now - but they are getting higher every year - and my telescopic lopper doesn't reach anymore.

There must be some way to keep neighbours trees below a certain height.

Can't I get a statement from a structural engineer / surveyor to advise that their trees will compromise the structure of the retaining wall they are planted on ?

The trees are within 5meters of my external wall.

As I said earlier, the best recourse is to completely and totally ignore them. If you have done nothing illegal you don't owe the time of day.

Be polite and distant when they approach you and try to avoid all conversations with them entirely. See if you can get a friend to back you up if you are out there working and the instant they start talking at you start recording everything.

They're nosy, trouble making jobsworths. You need to protect yourself from them and the best way to do that is total avoidance wherever possible.

When you have something legal you must disclose to them, that will be the time to do it.

Unfortunately I can't completely ignore them.

Neighbours told me that if they see work being undertaken, and I haven't confirmed in writing that it does not fall under the Party Wall Act, they will take legal action.

This means they will probably get an injunction, and will ask me to prove that the work I am doing does not fall under the act.... this will cause delays, and probably costs.

I just don't feel comfortable writing them anything, as I'm taking alot of liability by telling them anything.

I prefer to pay a surveyor/engineer a couple of hundred quid to write the statement, to confirm the intended work doesn't fall under the PW Act - which will show I have taken on professional advice - and acted with due diligence and care.......

The first step will be to make a complaint to the council. There is information here about how to do it:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-hedges-complaining-to-the-council/high-hedges-complaining-to-the-council

or just google "[your local council name] high hedges"

This only applies if the trees are mostly evergreen or semi-evergreen. It doesn't apply to trees that shed their leaves in the winter.

I think if you are planning to drop or raise the height of your ground level either way by more than 30 cm you need planning permission as drainage or flooding can effect neighbouring properties - is this something your neighbour could be worried about?

I found out that ANY tree planted in a conservation area needs planning permission to trim it.

Was anyone aware of this?

If you're in a conservation area then it's not planning permission as such, but you do need to notify the local council that you intend to do work.

This applies to trees with a diameter of more than 75mm at a height of 1.5m

Some trees will also be specifically protected by a Tree Preservation Order and in this situation you do need to apply for permission.

Where I live, the council do not charge for this. You can find out how to make an application here:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/trees/trees

They say in that link:

Conservation areas

If your tree is in a conservation area then you need to inform your Local Planning Authority six weeks before commencing work. A TPO overrides the conservation area, as such you should follow the rules set out by the TPO.

To gain consent for either works on Tree Preservation Orders or in a conservation area you should submit a ‘Tree works: Trees in conservation areas/subject to Tree Preservation Orders’ application. This can be done through the Planning Portal online application service

[EDIT]

An example of what the form looks like for my own council is here:

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/appPDF/J0540Form031_england_en.pdf

If you build a patio or decking that is more than 30cm higher than the existing land you do need planning permission.

Is this what you were thinking of?

Yes as I live in a conservation area and have had to apply for permission to trim trees.

So if you plant your own small tree, you're never allowed to trim it without paying the council £200-300 to get their permission to trim it every year?

I would be really worried if I was your neighbour.

You mention should you "concrete back over" the hole that you made? Is this a deep hole that is in a part of the garden that is concreted over? If so, it is understandable that the neighbours would be concerned about it.

If you don't own the freehold or any part of the wall are you sure you are able to deal directly with the neighbours when it comes to party wall agreements or does the freeholder have to enter the agreement? It could become very complicated if this is the case.

You don't need to pay anything. Certainly not where I live, but check with your local council.

Also, as I mentioned above, this only applies to trees with a diameter greater than 75mm at a height of 1.5m

I just don't understand. If my neighbour dug a hole in their own garden, even if it was next to my boundary fence, I wouldn't know! And if I somehow found out, I wouldn't be poking it with a stick over the fence to peer into it.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing by employing professionals. I'd just keep in doing it all properly, including establishing ownership of the wall and obtaining a statement that means there's no pw act to come into play, to prevent the delays should your neighbours get an injunction. (unless you find out the pwa does come into play, in which case you just do it all by that book!)

No drama.

When the neighbour told me he had concerns about the hole - he also claimed that the wall was his.

I called my freeholders surveyor - who is the council - who came round and confirmed its shared wall.

So now I know the neighbour will do anything, include lie about the wall to slow me down carrying out the work this summer....

The fact your being evasive and expecting them just to take your word for it would set alarm bells ringing for me if I was your neighbour

the easiest thing in the world would be to invite them round to look and discuss it with them

the way your approaching this is just creating drama

@TwoLeftSocksWithHoles 😂

@Feebs7 maybe your neighbour didn’t lie and he just genuinely thought the wall belonged to him? The advice from @OpizpuHeuvHiyo is very good and the way to go OP. With respect OP you sound a little combative and this could make your neighbour cause problems for your planned project. Some people need to see things set out in writing. As people can sometimes go back on their word. I am not suggesting you would do that. I have the theme tune from the Great Escape going through my head now!