Council taxing annex

[Nextdoor55]

Dear Mumsnetters

I'm posting for advice. Local council driving me insane. Bought house with annex for eldest child with disabilities, however she didn't want to move in & so we let it for a month to friends for expenses.

Some nice neighbours ratted us to local council for having someone in it, council tax then sent us a letter, saying they were going to look to have the annex banded for council tax.

Annex was converted from part of the house in 2001. Council tax increased following this to account for extra space (it was previously a warehouse).
In argument with local council who are like robots to deal with.
Main point is that the annex has a planning restriction which means it has to be used as part of the house & cannot be viewed or used as a separate unit of accommodation. Renting it out breaches the planning. Pointed this out to council tax & they said tough, it's with valuation office (voa).

We're being ping ponged between council tax & valuation office who are both saying it's one another's responsibility & not theirs.

Annex was passed with a kitchen, bathroom & bedroom in 2001.

Is there anything we can do to keep the council tax as it is? We're trying to move house & it's interfering with the sale.

Also worried that no-one will want to buy if we have an annex no-one can rent or do much with but have to pay double council tax for as it's considered a second property.

Also does anyone know what T means in the attached image?
That sentence is confusing. Although if we meet it we don't have to pay apparently

It is absolutely not the council tax who decide this, it's the assessors at the local valuation board who decide then advise the council who charge accordingly.

Planning has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it would be in the council tax list, it is not a contradiction or breach of planning, they fall under separate legislation. All that matters is, can the annex be occupied as a dwelling separate to the main house. How do you access the annex OP? Does it have its own door or is it through the main house? If it is through the main house, does the door open into a communal area such a a hall or is it into a room?

I don't think we have, we've been advised that we can have guests please read original post. We didn't let it. Unfortunately some sad nosey neighbour told the council we had friends to stay & then the council have assumed it was rented. It wasn't.
But the real issue isn't whether that's the case or not, the VOA has said it might be breaching their own planning condition by placing council tax on it. And that's what they were talking about.
Depends on what the VOA decide

That's interesting because the VOA asked me to send the planning document & said they'd have to look at it. It stipulates that it can't be used as a separate unit of accommodation & must be linked to the main house.
Having said that it was passed with a guest bedroom (!) & kitchen/ bathroom. But that wasn't back then when councils were a bit more lenient I suspect.
It has a door & adjoins through a corridor.
They've said though that because it would have been considered with the house for council tax we might be able to get it reduced on the house. Makes sense

I was listening to the radio yesterday and a man let a Ukrainian family have a similar annexe. For his kindness, he is now being pursued for Council Tax on this second dwelling with all the barriers and difficulties you describe. It’s obviously not worth being kind.

We have a self contained flat above our garage that’s always been described as a granny annexe. It acquired pp on the basis it was not to be sold separately and was for family use. This is because no new additional dwellings are permitted here. I would be furious if we had to pay council tax on it. At the moment it’s a guest annexe when friends stay over but has a bathroom and kitchen area.

Interesting, yes we did let friends stay here who were between properties and they didn't pay (just electric), we are really upset that this is happening, they're talking about doubling the council tax on the annex because it'll be considered a second property!

And then you will have CGT on a second property if you sell. I think it is underhand. I hope you get it sorted. Our PP says it’s not separate from the main house so hopefully this won’t arise for us but look at the Ukrainian family example. Families were not meant to be out of pocket by helping. Now look at what’s happening.

In OP's shoes I'd do what's already been suggested and take professional advice. I'd suggest a Chartered Surveyor or similar, there are people who specialise in this area.

Make sure, assuming the advice is not that the place is incontrovertibly a sperate dwelling and send it to the VoA. Sit back and wait for their decision. If you disagree then I'm pretty sure you can appeal to the First-tier Tribunal.

Generally if you can let it out as a self contained unit with its own front door etc it's going to get its own council tax band. It sounds like yours doesn't have a separate entrance though?

I'd not bother with a Chartered surveyor or spending any money on legal fees, the VOA are the place to go for this and they do have the expertise. However they're not the easiest to get an answer out of for a vaguely complex case, be prepared you may need to make a complaint to get it resolved. Whoever you speak to on the phone probably won't know the technical detail.

I'd start by doing a Subject Access Request to find out what information they hold about your property.

We have an annex that has a separate banding for council tax purposes and also have a planning restriction that doesn't allow it to be sold separately from the main house. We only use it for storage and claim a class T exemption so don't actually pay the additional council tax.

As it's all on one property title and can't be split and sold separately there wouldn't be any CGT on the annex as it's not a second property in the legal sense.

Thank you for this, at the moment it is empty and I have pre empted a discount and let the council know that no one is living in it. We aren't allowed to rent it out or use it separately no one is allowed to use it separately from our main house, is that the same for yours too?
I will be claiming T if we can, although it is all on the market at the moment, we are also asking for a reduction in the council tax for the main house because when it was last looked at the annex was taken into consideration, doesn't seem quite right that we're being asked to pay on the annex on both bills,

I can’t recall the precise wording of the planning restriction but it’s something along the lines of being used for “ancillary accommodation “ only and can’t be sold or let separately.

The annexe was converted from a barn/shipping by a previous owner so I’m not sure how it affected the council tax banding on the main house - although as it’s an off grid property and was in a poor state of repair at the time (and also when we bought it…) it’s fairly unique!

I haven't got time to read any replies so sorry if this has been suggested, but we had same problem. We took the kitchen out and council dropped it, didn't pay a penny more. We didn't need the kitchen so suited us.

This is so odd! Our annexe is above our garage and is detached from the house with its own front door. My friend had a barn built with office and kitchen and loo as well as party space. It’s not taxed separately either. Nor is my friend’s art studio with kitchen and shower room! Our annexe is clearly documented in pp but never paid 1p of council tax or claimed anything back. Some authorities just seem very grasping, but I’m definitely never letting it out now.

Unfortunately the access to the annexe is into a communal area, if it opened ina room, such a living room then it wouldn't be a separate assessment. The OP doesn't need a subject access request as the VOA will happily give you all the information that they have on the property if you ask.

We were told by our council that they only act on increasing the council tax once the property has been sold, so if you do it, it's the next occupiers who have to pay.

That's the case if you've done improvements such as adding a conservatory.

In this case it's an annexe which the Council are saying is a seperate dwelling. I don't think there's any bar to them making a proposal to that effect. The decision on whether it is separate rests with the VoA subject to appeal to the First-tier tribunal.

with a first tier tribunal, is this something that you have to attend like a court or do you make proposals to be reviewed? on paper, just wondering if it gets to that stage might have to be prepared. We are removing cooker and using as a storage space at the moment, not ideal when we are trying to sell!

This is really interesting (and horrifying). I have an adult dependent child and we had always thought we would eventually have a granny annex for him in the garden as he can’t live independently. I had never imagined that would be a problem.

@TomeTome Where I live, you would need pp for that. Your better bet might be an extension. Use the same front door! In so many cases, councils work against common sense!

Ds is exempt from council tax but like OPs child it’s possible he might have to live with us. His conditions fluctuate as does his desire for semi independence.

This needs to be escalated to the council's legal team as their proposed actions are clearly unreasonable and irrational.

Looking at this in more detail it looks as though appeals to do with Council Tax bands go to the Valuation Tribunal. I thought that had been rolled up into the First-tier Tribunal some years ago but the Valuation Tribunal Service still have a website etc and the F-tT's site does not cover this jurisdiction.

The information below is a starting point:

https://valuationtribunal.gov.uk/council-tax-appeals/council-tax-banding-appeal/