DS accident with electricity at work

[Pocketfullofdogtreats]

DS is a self-employed builder, currently working for a small building company renovating an old house. He was up some scaffolding, rendering (plastering) the outside of the property when he got a huge electric shock. He had moved a cable in order to render underneath it, and apparently the rubber was degraded, there was a crack, and he had touched it with wet hands (from the render). He had a dead arm. His boss phoned the electricity company and they said to phone 111, who wanted to send an ambulance. But DS drove himself to A&E where they saw him straight away and did lots of tests including a blood test. The electricity company said they were aware that the wiring needed to be upgraded - these things have a shelf life and it was on their list. They hadn't told the homeowner (who was horrified and said he never would've had the work done if he'd known) and DS's boss was unaware too. So someone (111?) said that he was very lucky he was wearing trainers rather than steel toecap boots, and was standing on wooden boards as it could've killed him. Apparently, outside the house it's a huge amperage, before it goes into a junction box and becomes 240 volts, which is why you see those warning signs on poles. So it's not a question of 'knock you off your feet' but cooking you inside, which was why they did the blood test. So he was at the hospital for several hours but sent home as OK. He is shaken up, This was two days ago. He is wondering if he should take this further. His instinct is to forget it and learn from it. TIA

Well I lift the cable to my kettle every single day to wipe under it with a damp cloth so I’m going to have to say yes. And I’ll put very good money on most people doing something similar, without thinking.

What does your son want to do about it? That's the question really.

not quite the same obviously as there was no one to sue apart from himself but my dad shot half way across the room in our house after poking something or other into a socket. His hair stood on end for ages

Honestly, this thread has reminded me why I barely come on Mumsnet. So many smug arseholes just desperate to prove that people are lying.

The thing is it’s perfectly safe for the purpose intended he shouldn’t of been working in such close proximity to a live wire

I presume he’s self employed and working for a main contractor which would make him responsible for his own risk assessments and working practices so it’s his own fault

to be perfectly blunt he should know better than to be touching live wires insulted or not
for low voltage ( normal 240 domestic supply) he should at least have the correct non conductive tools and Proper gloves that protect from electric

the reason he doesn’t want to do anything about it is because he knows the above and it was his fault

No. this is exactly the case. They knew the covering was degraded - they said so. But just hadn't got round to doing anything about it.

It wasn’t perfectly safe. This is a cable which is within clear reach of the public. Electric companies literally are not allowed to have open wires; they just be covered. The cover on this was degraded, therefore it was unsafe. It is perfectly safe to move a cable out of the way when rendering a house or working on a roof. That’s why they must be covered.

He isn’t in the wrong here.

So many red flags.
Plus the 'cash in hand' suggestion - We need more details about his employment 'status', is he SE and just submits an invoice?

There’s a reason the put them at height so people don’t come into contact with them thus eliminating the risk deeming them safe

think the big electric pylons there wire aren’t insulated

the insulation is to create a break from the live wire to what it attaches to not to protect builders fingers

what they will of meant by they know insulation of that type has a limited lifespan and there will be a rolling program to replace it
doubt very much anyone has been out to look at it

I work for one of the utilities there is endless regulations about working near power and doesn’t sound like your son followed any of them

as for reporting there would be a health and safety investigation which could lead to prosecution and fine
he didn’t even have gloves on no protection or safety precautions whatsoever so there’s no way he’d be in the clear

id be sacked instantly for doing this

People aren’t climbing up the big pylons. But the cables actually going into people’s homes are different. It is reasonable to expect that people will work on the exterior of their own home and their own roof, as well as various workmen. That’s why they must be covered and made safe. They cannot leave bare wires and they cannot leave degraded covers. It can be reasonable forseen that members of the public will come into contact with these cables. That’s why they must be safe. This one wasn’t.

thats why they are a height

but that aside it was a worksite not someone cleaning there windows and H&S regulations should of been followed and proper regulations should be followed and they clearly weren’t

there should of been risk assessment ( doubt grabbing wires with wet hands would of been in it ) PPE gloves , non conductive tools and safe proximity distance

Surely he should've checked to see if current was running through the cable first?!

Or checked the state of the cable first?!

Or made sure the electricity was turned off first?!

A professional would have done all of these. Even a reasonable DIY person would have!

OK, thank you for your informative posts. Sounds as if a letter to HSE is in order.

To correct a misapprehension - he did NOT grab a live wire with wet hands - he would be dead if he'd done that and wouldn't be that stupid. He touched the rubber/plastic cover to move the cable out of the way and unbeknown to him there was a split in a degraded part and he says "it arced across". It could easily have happened e.g. to the householder cleaning the windows. I presume he wasn't wearing gloves but I didn't ask him that - he normally would for dirty/heavy work but if he wasn't then presumably it was fiddly work around a moulding, that kind of thing. It's a 'heritage' property.

To answer some of your questions: He is 30. He did carpentry part-time at college at 16 while doing an apprenticeship with a small general building company. Built several houses so learnt on the job about all sorts - roofing, building staircases, plumbing, etc. Went self-employed so that he can pick and choose jobs and has worked on a variety of mostly small heritage projects with different other builders with varying attitudes towards health & safety. He is scrupulous about paying his own NI and taxes (thanks for that) because the more he can prove he earns, the more he can borrow on his mortgage.

It's a macho environment which is why he turned down the ambulance and was determined to drive himself. I know him - he's has various nasty cuts and squashed fingers etc in the past and carried on, so the fact that he actually went to hospital shows that he was taking it seriously. He is not sleeping now and is (no pun intended) in shock about it. The fact that the electricity board admitted it was due an upgrade and told him to ring the NHS helpline means they knew it was potentially serious.

Once again, thanks to those of you who have been helpful.

What red flags? Yes, he sends an invoice to the boss of the building company (or the householder if it's a private job) for the hours he's worked and any materials he's bought. .

I can see why some of you thought he touched a live wire. No, he moved a cable. He shouted out in pain and his boss came over, examined the cable and saw that the plastic/rubber cover was degraded and there was a crack.

To the boss of the building project, who was on the phone to them. I must admit that I was surprised too. But their first instinct seemed to be concern for his safety, which is a bit of a surprise.

Sorry, I thought I'd included all the relevant details. See my note above.

How much would you like to bet it was cash in hand? It wasn't. He declares everything. He doesn't even claim for buying tools. He uses an accountant and pays a huge tax bill. The reason for making everything above board is that he wants to maximise the amount of his earnings on paper so he can borrow the most on a mortgage to buy a place to do up. Oh, and also he doesn't do cash in hand because he is a decent and honourable young man who has integrity. Cheers..

He's a 30-year-old man, with nearly 15 years in the trade, and he needs his mum to ask mumsnet how to report an incident ?. I think he should consider getting himself on a work safe course.

I'd be concerned that the boss didn't have any first aid skills or knowledge of working around live cables, or inform your DS that there were live cables near to where he was working and how he could reduce or avoid risk of electrocution.

Are you sure that you are getting the full story from him? There are bits that don't make sense. Also why was he wearing runners on a site? I thought steelcap shoes are required on any building site.

I think it is quite common for self-employed tradespeople to work as contractors/subcontractor for building firms.
The fact that he is self-employed doesn't mean that the firm contracting him has no H&S responsibilities. As I understand it, both parties have responsibilities on construction projects.

If the workplace risk assessments should have picked up in this potential hazard, then the building firm may possibly be at fault. But if it isn't something they could have reasonably anticipated (eg because the electricity company had significantly failed to maintain a level of safety that could reasonable have been assumed), then they may not be at fault.
In practice, I guess that since no one was hurt significantly (thank goodness), it may be unlikely that any action would be taken.

No, it's not like 240 volts inside the house. Any damage is to internal organs etc apparently, which is why the blood test.

Thank you. The electricity company said they have moved this up their list and there is no more work ongoing on that house until that's been done.

the call handler on the end of the phone would not have known this and even if they had… would not have admitted liability like this!

no way would the electricity company made any admission during this call whatsoever

and i wonder whether the boss is trying to separate his potential culpability