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Original poster

Employer taking money from wages

28 replies

2225nicart · 10/04/2024 10:36

My partner is an hgv driver, back in January on a country lane his passenger side wheels got stuck in some mud and he couldn’t get himself out. This was 4 hours away from his workplace. He called his office and they at first said well you better get yourself out of it and put the phone down, they rang back and said they wouldn’t pay for a recovery truck and that they were sending another driver with his lorry to pull him out. When the lorry came and tried to pull him out the wheel set on fire causing the cab the curtains and contents to catch fire. To me if they had asked a recovery truck to do it in the first place this wouldn’t have happened. The recovery truck had to come anyway and it was located 5 minutes away from the incident.
He was suspended on full pay while they investigated. He worked 4 days on and 4 days off and this was his last working day before his 4 off. They had him come in on the 3rd day for driver training and told him to come back to work on his first day back.
He had a meeting and they gave him a written warning and told if it had been anyone else they would have lost their job. They said they wanted him to work one extra day a month for free to pay back some of what they lost. They then changed his contract to Monday to Friday so if he worked the extra shift he was working 6 days and he works 12-15 hours per day as it is. He asked to go back to 4 on 4 off while he did these extra shifts but they refused. He hasn’t done any of the extra shifts yet because it is too much. He received an email yesterday saying they were taking £320 out of his wages this week to recover some of the money. After tax he only gets £570 so that leaves us with £250 for the week, we put £200 per week in a separate account for our mortgage so that leaves us £50 for the week. How can an employer have the right to do that and leave us struggling for money? I am a carer for my daughter so I don’t work and we are in the process of changing from tax credits to universal credits going from weekly pay to monthly so we are already this down till the end of April. I have contacted acas and citizen advice but it says it can take up to 2 weeks for any contact. Thank you for any advice.
Sorry for the long post

OP posts:
IAmABogWitch · 10/04/2024 10:42

https://www.acas.org.uk/deductions-from-pay-and-wages#:~:text=Deductions%20must%20not%20take%20someone's,a%20vehicle%20through%20reckless%20driving
When a deduction can take wages below the National Minimum WageDeductions must not take someone's pay below the National Minimum Wage, unless the deduction is for:

  • tax or National Insurance
  • something an employee's done which their contract says they’re liable for, such as damage to a vehicle through reckless driving
I guess they could argue reckless driving. What does his contract say about paying for damage/recovery of vehicles? HTH does pulling a vehicle make the wheel catch fire? Maybe he needs to argue about how it was attached/towed or whatever, assuming the other driver did all that rather than your DH.

Making and checking deductions - Deductions from pay and wages - Acas

Check what deductions can be made from pay and wages including overpayments and training costs.

https://www.acas.org.uk/deductions-from-pay-and-wages#:~:text=Deductions%20must%20not%20take%20someone's,a%20vehicle%20through%20reckless%20driving

Mrsttcno1 · 10/04/2024 10:43

Hi OP, your partner needs to check his employment contract very carefully to see if this is stated in there. In general an employer cannot make deductions on an employee’s pay that take them below the NMW Rate, however there are exceptions to this and one of them is if the deduction is something that their contract says that they are liable for, one of the examples for this could easily be damage to a vehicle. If this is in your partner’s contract and he is liable then unfortunately yes the company is allowed to do this, your partner agreed to those terms when he signed the contract (if they are in there), but definitely check!

Original poster
2225nicart · 10/04/2024 10:58

IAmABogWitch · 10/04/2024 10:42

https://www.acas.org.uk/deductions-from-pay-and-wages#:~:text=Deductions%20must%20not%20take%20someone's,a%20vehicle%20through%20reckless%20driving
When a deduction can take wages below the National Minimum WageDeductions must not take someone's pay below the National Minimum Wage, unless the deduction is for:

  • tax or National Insurance
  • something an employee's done which their contract says they’re liable for, such as damage to a vehicle through reckless driving
I guess they could argue reckless driving. What does his contract say about paying for damage/recovery of vehicles? HTH does pulling a vehicle make the wheel catch fire? Maybe he needs to argue about how it was attached/towed or whatever, assuming the other driver did all that rather than your DH.

The other driver did it yes my partner was at the side trying to dig the wheels out. The only thing I can think is with them trying to get the wheels out and revving it’s made the tyre hot. I’m going to dig his contract out now

OP posts:
WhatToDoNowEh · 10/04/2024 11:11

You need to see his contract, the work term warning, and the disciplinary policy it relates to

Soigneur · 10/04/2024 11:22

Sorry to here this, is he in a union? If so then definitely talk to them.

MrsMoastyToasty · 10/04/2024 11:25

Check the rules about HGV drivers hours.
Call ACAS.
Maybe call an employment solicitor or law centre.
Contact his union.

SpringOfContentment · 10/04/2024 11:30

Can your partner ask (beg?) them to only take 100 for the next 3 weeks?
I'm not convinced about them being able to deduct wages, but but sounds like they are going to, and lessening the impact on the next pay slip would be my top priority.

idontlikealdi · 10/04/2024 11:32

Sounds dodgy as fuck to me. Presumably they have insurance for this type of thing?

Original poster
2225nicart · 10/04/2024 12:01

idontlikealdi · 10/04/2024 11:32

Sounds dodgy as fuck to me. Presumably they have insurance for this type of thing?

That’s exactly what I said. If they haven’t got insurance they shouldn’t allow their Lorrie’s on the road

OP posts:
Original poster
2225nicart · 10/04/2024 12:03

SpringOfContentment · 10/04/2024 11:30

Can your partner ask (beg?) them to only take 100 for the next 3 weeks?
I'm not convinced about them being able to deduct wages, but but sounds like they are going to, and lessening the impact on the next pay slip would be my top priority.

They say he owes £1980 so with the £320 he now owes £1660. She won’t answer the phone to him. She is just emailing this is what I have done.

OP posts:
Original poster
2225nicart · 10/04/2024 12:04

MrsMoastyToasty · 10/04/2024 11:25

Check the rules about HGV drivers hours.
Call ACAS.
Maybe call an employment solicitor or law centre.
Contact his union.

It’s a family run business the hr is the woman owner, she is the one that has emailed him. No union

OP posts:
Original poster
2225nicart · 10/04/2024 12:06

MrsMoastyToasty · 10/04/2024 11:25

Check the rules about HGV drivers hours.
Call ACAS.
Maybe call an employment solicitor or law centre.
Contact his union.

He has many times had to be rescued by another driver because he has run out of hours to drive. Some weeks he wouldn’t have been able to do extra anyway as he wouldn’t have enough hours left. Been in touch with acas they have given us a case number but could be 2 weeks before we hear anything. No union it’s a family run business. Hr is the woman owner.

OP posts:
Soigneur · 10/04/2024 12:17

The fact that the firm is family run has no bearing on whether or not he can join a union.

MartinLewisIsAmazing · 10/04/2024 12:21

Sounds really dodgy - check your house insurance, sometimes this can include legal help.

MrsMoastyToasty · 10/04/2024 12:38

Every employee has the right to join a union. The sticking point is whether the employer recognises that union.

A union, if he joins one now, probably wouldn't be able to represent him but would probably be able to advise him.

WarshipRocinante · 10/04/2024 12:42

Unions don’t come with the employer. Anyone can join a union. They don’t have to already have a relationship with your employer. Why isn’t he is a driver’s union?

They won’t help with this now as the won’t get involved in issues already started but he needs to join a union for his future.

QforCucumber · 10/04/2024 13:03

You need someone to email her back, (from 'him)

asking for
1 - a breakdown of the costs incurred
2 - specification on where on his contract he has agreed to have these costs deducted
3 - notify that he is seeking ACAS advice relating to the rate of deduction
4 - a breakdown of his hourly rate and contracted hours. you cannot work 'free' overtime to repay costs, these still need to be processed and taxed via payroll and then deducted - if the employee agrees to the deduction.

Mardyybum · 11/04/2024 20:39

Ugh they sound like shoddy employers. My dad was a haulage contractor with lots of employees and there’s no way he would have docked wages for mistakes - that’s what the insurance is for!
I would compose an email or written letter to the employer stating that you will be seeking advice from ACAS. He could also contact the Road Hauliers Association.
Is he driving via an agency or employed on the payroll or subcontracting? If agency worker definitely get in touch with them too.

Original poster
2225nicart · 12/04/2024 10:13

Mardyybum · 11/04/2024 20:39

Ugh they sound like shoddy employers. My dad was a haulage contractor with lots of employees and there’s no way he would have docked wages for mistakes - that’s what the insurance is for!
I would compose an email or written letter to the employer stating that you will be seeking advice from ACAS. He could also contact the Road Hauliers Association.
Is he driving via an agency or employed on the payroll or subcontracting? If agency worker definitely get in touch with them too.

He’s employed by them. Hadn’t heard of road hauliers association. Will look in to that thank you

OP posts:
Original poster
2225nicart · 12/04/2024 10:19

I always thought you joined a union through work, so you learn something new everyday. Will look in to it. Thank you.
An update.
She has taken £160 out of this weeks wages so not as bad as we thought but still hard hitting.
She hasn’t taken it as a deduction or anything though she’s put down that he has worked a day less than he has. I’m sure that can’t be right, It doesn’t show that he has paid any money towards this debt and then his tax and national insurance must be wrong.
He writes all of his hours in a diary to fill his time sheet in everyday plus his digi card will show the days and hours that he has worked.
Ita all baffling to me.

OP posts:
QforCucumber · 12/04/2024 11:55

She hasn’t taken it as a deduction or anything though she’s put down that he has worked a day less than he has. I’m sure that can’t be right, It doesn’t show that he has paid any money towards this debt and then his tax and national insurance must be wrong. she cannot do this, he needs to be paid or hours worked, and then the deduction taken from Net pay.

Needanewname42 · 12/04/2024 12:02

I think if I was him I'd be looking for another employer ASAP.
They sound so shoddy.

Original poster
2225nicart · 12/04/2024 15:02

QforCucumber · 12/04/2024 11:55

She hasn’t taken it as a deduction or anything though she’s put down that he has worked a day less than he has. I’m sure that can’t be right, It doesn’t show that he has paid any money towards this debt and then his tax and national insurance must be wrong. she cannot do this, he needs to be paid or hours worked, and then the deduction taken from Net pay.

That’s what I thought. I just wish Acas would get in touch so we really know where we stand

OP posts:
Original poster
2225nicart · 12/04/2024 15:04

Needanewname42 · 12/04/2024 12:02

I think if I was him I'd be looking for another employer ASAP.
They sound so shoddy.

He’s just got a new job and handed his notice in but don’t know how it’s going to play out with this hanging over him.
I’ve told him to say if he is libel then he can still set up a payment plan or something but less than £160 per week that’s not doable for us

OP posts:
WarshipRocinante · 12/04/2024 15:07

You mean liable OP. I’m not correcting you to be shitty, I’m correcting you in case you have any written correspondence with his employer. You want to argue whether or not he is liable for the debt.
Libel is when publications write stuff about you that isn’t true.