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Original poster

Gran passed and now family drama

68 replies

SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 16:49

Hi All

I need some advice but I will keep it brief (well I will try)

My gran passed recently and it's been very sad. My mum who was her executor passed away suddenly 10 years ago so the mantel fell to me as I am the next closest to her after my aunt excommunicated herself from the family and my uncle has had little interest in my gran's affairs.

Now she has gone I am sorting through everything, the problem is my uncle was living at my grans. For many years they would argue and she would ask him to leave but he never did. Now he is in the property on his own and is now asking me to sort all of the utilities out and get a letter from the solicitor to evict him.

Does this sound correct? He has no tenancy agreement and has no bills in his name but I am guessing he has occupancy rights? I don't want him on the streets at all, but my gran wanted the house sold immediately to pay off debts and give all her grankids an inheritance.

Today he called me moaning that the virgin is due to be cut off, naturally because I have notified everyone that she has passed and the bank has stopped all DDs. He doesn't work as he is unwell and struggled to find work for some time now.

Does anyone have any advice or insights into this? The plan was to have him move out when my gran was put into a nursing home but in the 9 months he never found anywhere and sadly we are now where we are.x

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 27/02/2024 19:27

SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 18:10

@Soontobe60 i am listed executor on the will. And applying for probate has begun as i met wth solicitors already. However my uncle isn't listed as an occupant at the address which will be going up for sale as per my grans wishes.

@CormorantStrikesBack I am in London.

Apologies - you said your mum was the executor in your opening post. Even with a solicitor, probate is taking an age.
The fact that he lives in the property means you can’t just turf him out. You’d have to evict him.
What do you mean he’s ’not Listed’ as an occupant? All his benefits will have his address listed, so unless he’s given them a false address, he will be listed somewhere as living at that address.

Hadalifeonce · 27/02/2024 19:48

My mother owned the house too, but her will stipulated that it had been sold. To be honest I can't remember who I spoke to, although it was only 3.5 years ago, we were in a bit of turmoil, with arrangements and evicting our brother.

Propertylover · 27/02/2024 19:54

@SunshineMummy2 please take note of @ReadingSoManyThreads post as they are correct.

Your solicitor can advise you but you need to lawfully evict your Uncle.

I think he maybe a Licensee under Estoppel and cutting off services etc. can be seen as unlawful harassment under the Prevention of Unlawful Eviction Regulations.

You cannot sell the house until probate is granted so there is plenty of time to do this properly.

Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 20:01

Just to clarify I do not think my uncle will contest the will as he is fully aware of the situation and also knows the house will be put up for sale. He wants a letter to take to the council I just was unsure as to who needs to do this, me or the solicitor?

I would be surprised if he contested anything as not like there's anything underhanded going on and he has been trying to get rehoused for some time but for some reason the council wouldn't house him as in his words " they wont believe how unwell he is to give him a property" . Now the situation is different as the owner of the house is gone perhaps this will change things .

@Propertylover i agree and understand the probate does take a very long time.

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 20:03

I dare say i wish i wasnt even listed as executor. I know she trusted me with her belongings but i cannot even process whats happened as i am knee deep in forms and funeral plans.

OP posts:
dontcallmelen · 27/02/2024 20:09

It will change things @SunshineMummy2 as he will be effectively becoming homeless once an eviction notice is served.

ShanghaiDiva · 27/02/2024 20:09

Agree with @AllThePotatoesAreSinging re a possible claim under the 1975 inheritance act if you uncle was being financially maintained by your gran.

Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 20:12

@ShanghaiDiva i genuinely have no issue with him contesting the will. I am just acting out the responsibility given to me. I repeatedly said to her that he should be put on it but she outrightly refused repeatedly.

I do wonder what he did with 6 years' worth of JSA and and other benefits as he only paid towards water and food and my gran with her pension, savings and money from me covered mortgage and bills.

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 27/02/2024 20:50

@CormorantStrikesBack amazing thank you, will look into this

OP posts:
twingiraffes · 27/02/2024 21:05

If I were you I would step back from the executorship and hand the entire thing over to the solicitor. You won't have to pay anything as they will take their fee out of the estate.

Let an impartial professional deal with it all.

Sorry for your loss. Flowers

marathon123 · 27/02/2024 23:05

OP@SunshineMummy2 I’m really not sure why you want everything shut down and him evicted asap though? Probate is not yet granted ( and may take many months, I’ve read it can take as much as 8-12 months at present) so the house cannot yet be sold ……and surely it’s best to have someone in the house for security/ insurance reasons rather than leaving a property empty for many months?

Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 02:35

@marathon123 there's no urgency from me as I don't want him on the street but he needs rehousing ...what about all of the utilities and things on the house? I don't think he can afford to pay them all.
My initial question was who manages getting him a new place to live, me , the council or solicitor.

OP posts:
SD1978 · 28/02/2024 02:44

He needs evicted so he can present to the council as homeless. Given he isn't paying any rent, he could cover the gas, electric etc- but doesn't want to. You've cut off the the services- I assume he has some mail going so could easily have them turned back on again, but would obviously rather you deal with it all.

marathon123 · 28/02/2024 09:51

@SunshineMummy2 i suspect you will be stuck between a rock and a hard place as the council will see that he has a roof over his head with no specific end date! I have heard horror stories of mums with children having to go to an office with bags of their belongs on the day of eviction as the council won’t step in until they are literally on the streets with nowhere to sleep that night. I would suggest you go on your councils housing page and look at what they say for people at risk of becoming homeless…in our area you would need to present at the office and bring all your Id and details then the housing officer would assess and make a personal housing plan. As he has no tenancy agreement /formal eviction notice then either a letter from you as the executor setting out the situation and/or a letter from the solicitor would be needed. I presume you are only stopping unessential services such as the internet as obviously the estate will need to keep paying for water/ heating/ electricity until the property is sold.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 28/02/2024 10:11

Based on your updates and the probate registry backlog (not sure now but know it was bad when I worked for a law firm), I'd rather he lives there for now, get him help paying the bills but look into what support he can get to be housed otherwise. Is there enough money in the pot for a small studio flat?

A friend of mine sort of has a similar position, she has an autistic brother who lives in the 'family home'. Friend is looking to sell her own flat and move further out of London this summer, she is looking now to move into the family home (which she actually bought and is on the mortgage/deeds of) for about a year or so and then decide what happens after that. Her DM is now in a private nursing home part funded by council and part funded by her/her DSis.

Her DSis planned to sell her house and buy the family home and have their DB living with her but due to circumstances this is now not happening, or not yet. He has savings but ultimately would probably have to go into sheltered housing. He does work but not a high paid job.

VanCleefArpels · 28/02/2024 12:29

Given his age I think it is highly unlikely the council housing office will require him to be made “officially” homeless. You should make an appointment for you both to attend the housing dept and just explain the situation and discuss the options and any requirements they have in terms of evidence.

Contesting the Will is not going to happen - you need to demonstrate a reasonable expectation of being provided for in a Will. Given he was made very aware that he was cut out of the Will while your Gran was alive this just won’t float.

It may not be as complicated as you fear - talk to the housing people ASAP

Propertylover · 28/02/2024 13:19

SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 02:35

@marathon123 there's no urgency from me as I don't want him on the street but he needs rehousing ...what about all of the utilities and things on the house? I don't think he can afford to pay them all.
My initial question was who manages getting him a new place to live, me , the council or solicitor.

Honestly I think you are going to end up doing a lot of the work. It all depends how capable or not your Uncle is.

My advice is to start by helping him apply for benefits and to apply for the single person council tax discount. These can then be used to pay the bills whilst he is living in the home. Technically he is responsible going forward so getting him an income has to be a priority.

Please make sure the house is insured, a water leak or fire can seriously devalue the property.

Then talk to the Local Authority about what housing options there are. At the same time talk to the solicitor about lawfully evicting him - double check him paying the bills doesn’t give him additional rights.

It’s shit when you are also having to sort out your Grans funeral, probate and then clearing and selling the house whilst also grieving the loss of your Gran.

I know this isn’t what you want to hear but my experience is that it’s easier to do it yourself than chasing SS etc. to do it.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 28/02/2024 18:30

VanCleefArpels · 28/02/2024 12:29

Given his age I think it is highly unlikely the council housing office will require him to be made “officially” homeless. You should make an appointment for you both to attend the housing dept and just explain the situation and discuss the options and any requirements they have in terms of evidence.

Contesting the Will is not going to happen - you need to demonstrate a reasonable expectation of being provided for in a Will. Given he was made very aware that he was cut out of the Will while your Gran was alive this just won’t float.

It may not be as complicated as you fear - talk to the housing people ASAP

You are completely incorrect and there are several recent test cases that made it to court. Knowing you’ve been cut out is the shown point. Claiming under the inheritance act isn’t about whether you didn’t know you’ve been left out, it’s about being left out AFTER you were maintained - that’s the ‘expectation of reasonable provision’. He lived with his mum and she paid for virtually everything for years. This lack of provision is making him homeless. That’s why he can claim she’s failed to make reasonable provision. Courts don’t like that.

Illot Vs Blue Cross and others. Estranged daughter contested will successfully.

Nahajec v Fowle

RE Annan

Like I said. Speaking from experience.

And I definitely wouldn’t be cutting off the utilities while he’s living there without making sure you have a watertight legal case for doing so.

SquirrelBlue · 28/02/2024 18:43

SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 02:35

@marathon123 there's no urgency from me as I don't want him on the street but he needs rehousing ...what about all of the utilities and things on the house? I don't think he can afford to pay them all.
My initial question was who manages getting him a new place to live, me , the council or solicitor.

The council. Literally give him an eviction letter from yourself and he can go present himself to them. They will tell him if they need anything else or what needs to be done next. It is not your responsibility to sort out housing for him.

Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 20:43

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging I am unsure as to whether you're completely correct here.

She did pay all of the bills and he gave her cash when possible. What he has done with the years of benefits I'll never be too sure of, he is very secretive with everything even his illness.

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 20:46

Mini update

Spoke to the council today who said that he has attempted to be rehoused twice and both applications were closed.. they wouldn't advise why. I assumed that him being very ill was enough for them to at least consider him. As he was living with my gran he was advised to join the housing list?
Now he is pre-homeless they advised he reapply and advise the difference in circumstances and my solicitor draw up the situation with the house and I advise any evidence to show my grans wishes.

Currently the only thing that hasn't been looked at is the gas and electricity as I need meter readings. Everything else has been stopped. I do hope something is sorted out in time as don't want him in this position. It's a difficult time already

OP posts:
AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 28/02/2024 20:53

SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 20:43

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging I am unsure as to whether you're completely correct here.

She did pay all of the bills and he gave her cash when possible. What he has done with the years of benefits I'll never be too sure of, he is very secretive with everything even his illness.

Don’t take my word for it, ask your solicitor.

BruFord · 28/02/2024 20:55

Just chiming in to say that you’re dealing with this really well, OP, and I’m sorry that your uncle is burdening you with this, because it’s really not fair. He’s an adult and it sounds as if he can deal with things when he wants to.

Original poster
SunshineMummy2 · 28/02/2024 21:02

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging well you've put a comment here.. and I've responded..did you want to be ignored? Anyway the solicitor will hopefully clarify things soon.

OP posts:
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