Mum has died intestate - complicated estate issues

[butterfly0404]

Hello

I have a question, not sure if anyone has the answer. My has died without a will, had a feeling this would happen. My dad died four years ago and my mum dealt with some minimal administration associated with that . Dad didn't leave a will, there was only property and a piece of land, about half an acre, separate deeds which I understand passed to my mum.

Myself and my brother I understand will inherit but potentially the land and property might be worth a bit, potentially 700k, hard to say as the property is very run down, it;s a semi and the property next door is also in a similar state, but the plot is large.

There are further complications as a family member is running a business from the plot of land kind of under the radar of most legal permissions, ie planning, business rates etc.

They use the utilities of mum's house to run the business, whilst she was alive she was happy with this arrangement but obviously this cannot continue. It also appears family member is further subletting this piece of land to someone else for the storage of building materials.

It's incredibly messy.

As there is no will, is it likely there will be inheritance tax to pay ? I'm absolutely in the dark about this and my brother has gone awol, doesn't want to deal with any processes at all. I have an appointment with a probate solicitor next week but I fear this is going to get expensive.

If he wants them to carry in and you don't want to be involved the obvious answer is is that he buys you out.

He would (presumably) need to raise a mortgage to do so which might focus his mind on how much rent the business pays?

Yes it's a possibility, he does own a number of rental properties but his own finances are very messy. I guess we will have to see what happens.

Not quite true. In order to claim the additional 175k (transferable to spouse making total of £350k) residence nil rate band the property must pass to direct descendants (wide definition) and so the identity of the person receiving the estate is relevant.

Why would you do this ‘Yes it's a possibility, he does own a number of rental properties but his own finances are very messy. I guess we will have to see what happens.,

What are you going to wait for ? Your brother is awol.

get a solicitor asap.
cut off the water and electricity to your Mum’s place as no one live there and no one pays rent.
get the stuff evicted and the house boarded up.
call the police and say there are squatters on the land.
put the land up for sale.
if anyone asks you say your brother has done all this and you have not idea what is going on.

otherwise you will lose 700k from being totally wet and pathetic

Not a lawyer but might be worth informing the utility companies what’s happened.
No point racking up more costs subsidising your relatives as it sounds like the legal fees for this won’t be small.
It took me close to 8 years to sort intestate relative’s estate.

Unfortunately I can't do that, he has as much right to access the property un connection with the probate matters, plus his son has a key so will just allow him in. My two nephews stay at the property often, their business involves shifts and they will often sleep there. My late mum was OK with that arrangement as they are her grandsons.

I have no more right to cut off the utilities any more than he does until the solicitor takes over, which will be next wednesday. I'm far from pathetic, I've dealt with everything this week after soending 3 weeks in the hospicecwith her. I've sorted the funeral arrangement, all the death admin whilst he's fucked off to misery land because of his 'bad mentals' as a result of losing out mum.

If anything he's the pathetic weak twat, not me.

And squatters (they aren't, they have a licence to occupy at the least) are a civil matter, the police will just laugh at being called out for that. If you have any useful nuggets legal information relating to my situation I'm all ears, but you seem to be as clueless as I am.

Yes I think we're looking at many years and many thousands of pounds in costs, they won't leave that site willingly.

I can't turn off the electric as their site CCTV runs off it and covers the house as well. Honestly it's so bloody incestuous, my parents were naive in thinking this was all above board and easily sorted.

I'm sorry for your loss OP. I was in your situation with my dad dying a year after mum & he hadn't done the paperwork for her although he told us he had sorted it!

I think you need to show your brother in black & white at least how much the business is costing the estate, I.e you & him. If the business cannot cover the cost of rent & utilities, then it's doomed. They need to agree to paying the market rent etc or move out in 30 days. Is the money from the subletting going to the business too?!

You will need a solicitor at some stage to sell (& also probably to deal with the family business), but if you're feeling up to it you could tackle the probate by yourself. My parents estate was worth half yours but we had to complete full IHT as half the house was given to us dc 5 years ago. Was a little bit of a challenge but not too bad & saves 1.2% of the estate value for someone else to do it. I don't think it made too much difference in the paperwork if there was no wills - easy to look at the forms online & see what you think. Best of luck 💐

Good luck

Thanks @buckeejit , I might have a look, I'm the eldest and next of kin so I presume I can (if I felt I could do it) take on the probate myself. I wonder if my brother could object if I did decide ?

I think the biggest issue is deciding the long term use of the land, ie do my nephews carry on with their business but with all the proper legal frameworks in place. My brother is almost certainly going to try and claim he owns that plot of land, I've found legal paperwork stating he gifted the money to my parents to buy it but also removing any right of his to hold a legal interest. That quite odd as my mum told me she and my dad took out an equity release to buy it, but I don't believe that's true. I guess it doesn't matter too much as the title names my mum and dad as owners.

Sounds like the best thing you can do is sit down with your brother & have an open chat about each of your understanding of ownership & expectations for going forward. Your brother gifting them the money makes things sounds a bit odd though. Good luck

I'd love that to happen but he isn't responding to calls or texts. There is other stuff as well I can't comment on, but suffice to say he doesn't feel I have Entitlement to the land at all, despite what the rules of intestacy say.

I'm going to get valuations next week and apply for letters of administration and take it bit by bit. In for the long haul. I'll use solicitors where there are things I don't know or can't do.

Is the house insured?
Who will the electric and gas bills be going to?

Yes it is, I've double checked, insured to July. No gas, it's on oil and septic tank, electric paid by Direct Debit from mums account, I'll be notifying the provider on Monday

Once you notify your mum’s bank they will freeze her account and stop all direct debits. Are you going to start paying the electricity bill for the people living in your mum’s house? Because that seems a bit crazy!

The insurance might also become invalid if it’s in her name.

Sorry OP, the more you explain the more it sounds as if you have a long battle and losing family connections on your hands.

No I won't be

Whilst it's going through probate that won't be an issue, but will have to adjust the policy to account for non occupancy

Yes, however the family issue has been brewing for a while, that bit is out of my hands, I will have to follow the process and if family aren't happy about it, that's their problem. I have no choice about putting it through probate.

Which country do you live in?

I'm in the UK, Southern England

For fucks sake why haven’t you applied for letters of administration?
You don’t need your Brother’s permission and he could go behind your back and become executor once he realises he can.
Take control.
Just bloody do it, now. Online.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-probate-by-post-if-there-is-not-a-will#:~:text=You%20can%20apply%20for%20the,right%20to%20manage%20their%20estate.

If it were me I'd apply for letters of administration now to trump your brother.

I'd notify the banks, utilities and insurance companies that the estate is now in administration and that the bank accounts should be frozen. Also ask the bank to agree to settle the undertakers bills so you aren't paying personally for the funeral. You really do need to turn off the utilities if the property is unoccupied as the chances are that if you don't the insurance could be invalidated if there was a leak etc. Nephews will need to find somewhere else to stay.

Find a solicitor who is a member of the Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners (STEP) and who works in a firm with experience in land title disputes so that the have the expertise to deal with all the issues. https://www.step.org/about-step/public

Ask the bank for copies of the accounts going back to when the land was bought - can you see the purchase monies going out and were there funds deposited to fund this - were they from an equity release or your brother?

I'd suggest to your brother that when you distribute the estate the house is sold, the land is allocated to his share and that you get a bigger share of the bank accounts and house proceeds to compensate for that. It might make sense for your brother to give the land to his sons but that is for him to decide (if he does he can do so via a deed of variation).

It sounds like there will be no IHT to pay but if there is bear in mind that the IHT on property is payable in installments (10% over 10 years) until sale when the balance is payable.

Yep, if IHT was due, the first 10% HAS to be paid withing 6 months.
Hopefully it’s well under the limit but I would over value the estate ( to just under the limit) in any case.
Get an estate agent round for a quick estimate, the closer to the IHT limit, the more accurate the valuation needs to be.